Friday May 26, MFMP Testing Me356 LENR Reactor

Here’s a new thread dedicated to the actual testing by the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project of the claimed LENR reactor that has been built by researcher “Me356”. Recent posts have dealt with the preparation the MFMP team has been making for the testing, but I thought it would be appropriate to start a new thread for the actual testing that is scheduled to begin today, May 25, 2017. I will add information here as it is revealed.

There are some interesting details that can be found in a new audio file released by the MFMP in which Bob Greenyer, Ryan Hunt and Brian Albiston discuss a visit they made to Me356 today in preparation for tomorrow’s test. The full audio can be heard here:

A few of the points the guys bring up on this recording are:

On visiting me356 on Thursday they found him to be very gracious and cooperative, helping them get their equipment set up and providing them with food and drink.

The were shown his reactor, and they describe it like a small ‘glowstick’ encased in aluminum, almost hermetically sealed. Me356 says that they will be able to weigh it, also that they can touch it during operation, since there is a cooling system that is able to take away the heat.

The team members were able to hold the reactor and they said it seemed heavy for its size. Me356 said that the reactor takes 10 minutes to get up to full performance level after turning it on, but that net positive COP is reached within five minutes after starting it.

The MFMP team has been invited to come to me356’s place at 14:00 on Friday. Bob says that photos will be posted tomorrow.

MFMP’s Test Log is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puq-FskyCZyFlshjBF4AF53TEB9tzgWQO2My0hVFGsg/edit#

On the way to the test:

Me356 told the MFMP the the reactor they are testing is rated at 4kW.

From the MFMP Log document:

“13:55 UTC – The reactor has arrived. We will begin a live video soon.

First test is going to be a test where we sparge steam into a bucket.
We will weigh, measure, and video the device.
We will do a video tour of all the instrumentation.
Then we will fill the bucket on a scale so we can note the mass of water to be warmed. WE will note the starting temperature.
Then we will connect the reactor and start it up and see how long it takes to heat the water 50 or 60 degrees C

This is the simple test. WE did a prototype test a few days ago “

The MFMP team with the me356 reactor:MFMP and Me356 reactor

Here’s the first video feed, which is an initial look at the lab and the reactor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9EL_rEzjWg

New live video stream of “Sparge Test 1” is posted:

  • we-cat

    Drumrolls please! Pfff..this is exciting stuff…All the best for the MFMP Warriors!

  • Monty

    Good luck for you.
    Let’s hope there is something conclusive coming out of this test.

  • Karl Venter

    Carpe Diem Boys

  • LesioQ

    That’s exciting ! Love Open Science !

  • Domenico Canino

    Thanks to me356 an MFMP. Making History. Waiting for results and developementes.

  • Domenico Canino

    Thanks to me356 an MFMP. Making History. Waiting for results and developementes.

  • Stephen

    Good luck MFMP and to everyone one who made it possible. And thanks Me356 for giving this opportunity.

  • Stephen

    Good luck MFMP and to everyone one who made it possible. And thanks Me356 for giving this opportunity.

  • Stephen Harrison

    Does anyone know if that 14.00 Friday is that CET?

    • LukeDC

      Yes it was 2pm Central European Time

  • Rene
  • Rene
  • artefact

    If it does not work I’m deeply thankful that the group tried.
    If it works, so much can change with this “new” enabling technology.

    While many of us were waiting and hoping, me356 did actually do something – and was seemingly lucky.
    The implications of a confirmed positive result are enormous.

  • artefact

    If it does not work I’m deeply thankful that the group tried.
    If it works, so much can change with this “new” enabling technology.

    While many of us were waiting and hoping, me356 did actually do something – and was seemingly lucky.
    The implications of a confirmed positive result are enormous.

  • Vicky

    All the very best MFMP and me365 Team. If it worked well and inventor is ready to give it as open source technology. Then How AR is going to handle this flood. 🙂

    Hope everything will go +ve.

  • Vicky

    All the very best MFMP and me365 Team. If it worked well and inventor is ready to give it as open source technology. Then How AR is going to handle this flood. 🙂

    Hope everything will go +ve.

  • Stephen Taylor

    In the recent Facebook live post the reactor rating is said to be 4kW, although nobody really knows, that is pretty much what me356 is expecting from it.
    I wonder how much input he anticipates will be required to drive it to that 4kW output. We shall see what happens.

  • LukeDC

    Yes it was 2pm Central European Time

  • Stephen Taylor

    In the recent Facebook live post the reactor rating is said to be 4kW, although nobody really knows, that is pretty much what me356 is expecting from it.
    I wonder how much input he anticipates will be required to drive it to that 4kW output. We shall see what happens.

  • me356 is acting exactly the opposite of Rossi.
    Very nice! This makes me happy. Thank you me356 and MFMP!

    Also that “We have a lot more control over the device’s installation than we thought we might.” 🙂

    • Mats002

      1. Agree
      2. Good
      F8/F9
      Warm regards ^^

  • me356 is acting exactly the opposite of Rossi.
    Very nice! This makes me happy. Thank you me356 and MFMP!

    Also that “We have a lot more control over the device’s installation than we thought we might.” 🙂

    • Mats002

      1. Agree
      2. Good
      F8/F9
      Warm regards ^^

  • The Lugano testers opted not to collect data on the E-Cat in self-sustain mode. In retrospect this was a horrible mistake as any self-sustain period or convincing heat after zero power would have cleared many things up.

    If you have that option, please exercise it.

    Also at the end of the test if me356 says it is possible to overdrive the reactor into either a meltdown or nasty emissions, that would be a spectacular set of data to acquire.

    (copied from other thread… didn’t realize this one was here)

    • Stanny Demesmaker

      The lugano testers didn’t make an horrible mistake, based on their test WF invested 50 million dollar. They made their investment when all the criticism about the Lugano test were known, If they discovered even a little mistake in the calcultation they would never have taken the change to make that investment And the test has never been retracted by IH or the Lugano team.

      Statement from WF:
      “With regard to Industrial Heat, we were, and have been, very aware of the scepticism about this technology. We have undertaken a rigorous due diligence process that has taken two and half years.”

      This is an old discussion, but you will never convince certain people even if you have an almost perfect test. Some trolls are incredible sophisticated to make you doubt the outcome, Repetition is a powerful tool. Most people who are genuine critics of Rossi, are sceptical on a irrational level. That’s a result of reading more then 1000+ comments saying that he is a fraud. The human mind is easy manipulated

      That being said, I am superinterested in the test, fascinating times ahead 🙂

      • It is not to much to ask for the experimenters to explore the experimental modes that would provide the most incontrovertible evidence of nuclear energy release.

        • Stanny Demesmaker

          of course not, but at this moment there is already enough data available that proofs LENR is real, and still nobody cares.

          • We have not had the combination of Live Open Science and a high COP LENR+ reactor before.

            This is potentially a watershed event.

          • Mats002

            Exactly so.

          • Dr. Mike

            Totally agree!

        • pelgrim108

          See the action here (when it starts)

          https://freeboard.io/board/MwMhlL
          Will they use plot.ly also?

      • cashmemorz

        The problem is not that there is already enough evidence of LENR, it is that anyone truly requiring LENR or any type of high COP energy is keeping that idea to themselves against the competition. Implementing it is another hurdle that is or will take years to be sure that it is working industrial scale. First in this regard is overcoming board of directors being unsure what they are getting into for investing into a system powered by LENR. The board members are almost always conservative and want to know the long term implications. If I were on that board I would want to cover points such as unknown radiation or Muons leaking. I would not want to take a chance with litigation that my company did not know that Muons can cause damage to human operators. In other words there are too many unknowns to go whole hog in implementing such revolutionary tech. Until all of the unknowns are fixed very few will take such risks whether healthwise or money wise for investing in this very new way of doing things. We are at the very beginings of something that is hard to comprehend. Some one who is willing to take extreme risks will be the only ones willing to even try. Very few customers for this as yet. A more immediate and practical problem to over come currently is the lack of experts who understand what is actually going on with what makes it work, the physics to handle it in house. Thereare virtually no experts to call who know exactly how it works to to fix it if it breaks down. It will be another decade before we are at that point.

  • The Lugano testers opted not to collect data on the E-Cat in self-sustain mode. In retrospect this was a horrible mistake as any self-sustain period or convincing heat after zero power would have cleared many things up.

    If you have that option, please exercise it.

    Also at the end of the test if me356 says it is possible to overdrive the reactor into either a meltdown or nasty emissions, that would be a spectacular set of data to acquire.

    (copied from other thread… didn’t realize this one was here)

    • Stanny Demesmaker

      The lugano testers didn’t make an horrible mistake, based on their test WF invested 50 million dollar. They made their investment when all the criticism about the Lugano test were known, If they discovered even a little mistake in the calcultation they would never have taken the change to make that investment And the test has never been retracted by IH or the Lugano team.

      Statement from WF:
      “With regard to Industrial Heat, we were, and have been, very aware of the scepticism about this technology. We have undertaken a rigorous due diligence process that has taken two and half years.”

      This is an old discussion, but you will never convince certain people even if you have an almost perfect test. Some trolls are incredible sophisticated to make you doubt the outcome, Repetition is a powerful tool. Most people who are genuine critics of Rossi, are sceptical on a irrational level. That’s a result of reading more then 1000+ comments saying that he is a fraud. The human mind is easy manipulated

      That being said, I am superinterested in the test, fascinating times ahead 🙂

      • It is not too much to ask for the experimenters to explore the experimental modes that would provide the most incontrovertible evidence of nuclear energy release.

        • Stanny Demesmaker

          of course not, but at this moment there is already enough data available that proofs LENR is real, and still nobody cares.

          • We have not had the combination of Live Open Science and a high COP LENR+ reactor before.

            This is potentially a watershed event.

          • Mats002

            Exactly so.

          • Dr. Mike

            Totally agree!

      • cashmemorz

        The problem is not that there is already enough evidence of LENR, it is that anyone truly requiring LENR or any type of high COP energy is keeping that idea to themselves against the competition. Implementing it is another hurdle that is or will take years to be sure that it is working industrial scale. First in this regard is overcoming board of directors being unsure what they are getting into for investing into a system powered by LENR. The board members are almost always conservative and want to know the long term implications. If I were on that board I would want to cover points such as unknown radiation or Muons leaking. I would not want to take a chance with litigation that my company did not know that Muons can cause damage to human operators. In other words there are too many unknowns to go whole hog in implementing such revolutionary tech. Until all of the unknowns are fixed very few will take such risks whether healthwise or money wise for investing in this very new way of doing things. We are at the very beginings of something that is hard to comprehend. Some one who is willing to take extreme risks will be the only ones willing to even try. Very few customers for this as yet. A more immediate and practical problem to over come currently is the lack of experts who understand what is actually going on with what makes it work, the physics to handle it in house. Thereare virtually no experts to call who know exactly how it works to to fix it if it breaks down. It will be another decade before we are at that point.

  • Mike Henderson

    The long implications of COP>>1 are profound. Energy too cheap to meter will be disruptive.

    But in the short term, I would just like to make a small amount of money, enough to say “I was following this and can prove it.”

    Suppose a COP significantly over unity is found. What is the best short term stock market play on this? I have $100 I would be willing to place at risk on a major stock price move. Calls or puts (stock options) cost just pennies to buy when they have a strike price that is “deep out of the money” and with an expiration date under 60 days. If the underlying security moves up (calls) or down (puts) the value of the option goes up … a LOT. I suspect that a big stock like Exxon-Mobil may not react anywhere near as quickly as a smaller stock.

    • Mats002

      We’ve been around this subject years ago in hope of Rossi goto market which – as we all know – haven’t happened yet.

      The outcome back then – as I understood it – is that there is no low risk investment to do.

      See this thread at LENRForum:
      https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/1845-invest-in-lenr/?postID=6211&highlight=Invest%2Bin%2Blenr#post6211

      You can also find discussions here at ECW, not sure how to find them though. Use the search function with some creativity.

    • Ged

      One could also invest in peripheral companies, those that would profit from distributing or setting up LENR devices, such as power metering and converting groups (like Enphase for example, though Enphase is doing poorly). It’s hard to say what to do exactly as a lot of new companies would appear and disappear rapidly as the field was born and matured, and that isn’t something so easily predicted.

      As for puts and calls, Exxon and co may not react quickly, but other clean energy companies could be utterly gutted very rapidly. LENR makes solar and wind nigh pointless except in places where they are at their absolute best, so both fields would crash Hard, fast, as there are already far too many floundering companies saturating the renewables market.

    • Russell K

      I don’t think it MFMP will have an impact you are looking for, if it turns out the reactor does work and COP > 1 there will still be doubts and refusal, just look at Lugano report, how much did that sway markets.

  • Mike Henderson

    The long implications of COP>>1 are profound. Energy too cheap to meter will be disruptive.

    But in the short term, I would just like to make a small amount of money, enough to say “I was following this and can prove it.”

    Suppose a COP significantly over unity is found. What is the best short term stock market play on this? I have $100 I would be willing to place at risk on a major stock price move. Calls or puts (stock options) cost just pennies to buy when they have a strike price that is “deep out of the money” and with an expiration date under 60 days. If the underlying security moves up (calls) or down (puts) the value of the option goes up … a LOT. I suspect that a big stock like Exxon-Mobil may not react anywhere near as quickly as a smaller stock.

    • Mats002

      We’ve been around this subject years ago in hope of Rossi goto market which – as we all know – haven’t happened yet.

      The outcome back then – as I understood it – is that there is no low risk investment to do.

      See this thread at LENRForum:
      https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/1845-invest-in-lenr/?postID=6211&highlight=Invest%2Bin%2Blenr#post6211

      You can also find discussions here at ECW, not sure how to find them though. Use the search function with some creativity.

    • Ged

      One could also invest in peripheral companies, those that would profit from distributing or setting up LENR devices, such as power metering and converting groups (like Enphase for example, though Enphase is doing poorly). It’s hard to say what to do exactly as a lot of new companies would appear and disappear rapidly as the field was born and matured, and that isn’t something so easily predicted.

      As for puts and calls, Exxon and co may not react quickly, but other clean energy companies could be utterly gutted very rapidly. LENR makes solar and wind nigh pointless except in places where they are at their absolute best, so both fields would crash Hard, fast, as there are already far too many floundering companies saturating the renewables market.

    • Piet

      Cheap energy -> cheap electricity -> massive electrification. Raw materials needed? How about copper? Processing costs will drop, but time to develop and get all the permits for new mines is over 10 years. Idea: copper and copper miners?

    • Commodity

      Frackers / Natural Gas companies are more sensitive than XOM.
      Theoretically You may get more percent profit with fall of Brent Oil or Natural Gas and have prepared so called Waiting Orders in manner called “Snowballing”.
      Theoretically tens thousands percent. Simple cascade of waiting orders. Volume exponentially increased.

    • Russell K

      I don’t think it MFMP will have an impact you are looking for, if it turns out the reactor does work and COP > 1 there will still be doubts and refusal, just look at Lugano report, how much did that sway markets.

  • Stephen Taylor

    How can I find Google drive test data/test 6?

  • Stephen Taylor

    How can I find Google drive test data/test 6?

  • Paul Smith

    I’ve seen that they are measuring the absence of DC in the main AC.
    It is very good, remembering the Lugano test where someone suspected that there was that DC capable of generating hidden excess heat and so in that case the test was a fake one.

    • Mats002

      The equipment thay have will rule out or messure both DC and overloaded frequences during active run.

  • Paul Smith

    I’ve seen that they are measuring the absence of DC in the main AC.
    It is very good, remembering the Lugano test where someone suspected that there was that DC capable of generating hidden excess heat and so in that case the test was a fake one.

    • Mats002

      The equipment thay have will rule out or messure both DC and overloaded frequences during active run.

  • pelgrim108

    See the action here (when it starts)

    https://freeboard.io/board/MwMhlL
    Will they use plot.ly also?

  • One Opinion

    Turn-by-turn directions, video of nearby landmarks, combined with what we know about Me356 as a businessman should be enough to locate and identify the fellow to any quasi-determined investigator. Of course, intel agencies laughably easily could have followed and traced MFMP’s travels, parcel shipments and communications already.

    This is another case of the only ones kept in the dark being the general public. A bit of an entertaining farce.

    Well, soon enough he’ll probably be revealed anyway.

    • Mats002

      Soon enough we probably have the recipe for NiH LENR+ with or without Me356 anyway. Don’t underestimate this community.

  • pelgrim108

    There will be a video stream coming up shortly. Ryan is updating the log.

  • pelgrim108

    There will be a video stream coming up shortly. Ryan is updating the log.

  • artefact

    The reactor has arrived. See testlog.
    Live video soon.

  • Webscience

    That’s exciting! Can’t wait to see the live video
    Good luck all

  • Webscience

    That’s exciting! Can’t wait to see the live video
    Good luck all

  • Mats002

    Soon enough we probably have the recipe for NiH LENR+ with or without Me356 anyway. Don’t underestimate this community.

  • pelgrim108
    • artefact

      Very good photo. Like astronauts.

      • Mike Henderson

        Agree. Definitely not the Comcast installer team photo. 😉

    • SG

      I predict that if the MFMP verify this high COP LENR device, this photo will go down in history. Sort of like the early photo of Steve Jobs and his band of Apple developers.

  • pelgrim108
    • artefact

      Very good photo. Like astronauts.

      • Mike Henderson

        Agree. Definitely not the Comcast installer team photo. 😉

    • SG

      I predict that if the MFMP verify this high COP LENR device, this photo will go down in history. Sort of like the early photo of Steve Jobs and his band of Apple developers.

  • Mike Henderson

    Hey Bob & crew …
    Both Plotly charts (29 & 30) stopped some time ago showing a last data point at 09:23:32 on 26-May.

  • Mike Henderson

    Hey Bob & crew …
    Both Plotly charts (29 & 30) stopped some time ago showing a last data point at 09:23:32 on 26-May.

  • pelgrim108
    • Mats002

      36 is waiting, it will start in 2 minutes.

      • Mats002

        51 waiting, it will start soon!

    • If someone of the MFMP reads here: please turn off your speaker, we have an echo here 🙂

  • pelgrim108
    • Mats002

      36 is waiting, it will start in 2 minutes.

      • Mats002

        51 waiting, it will start soon!

    • If someone of the MFMP reads here: please turn off your speaker, we have an echo here 🙂

  • Dr. Mike

    Can the water flow through Me356’s reactor be set at about 1-2 liter/minute? If it can, for a 4KW reactor the water would only be heated to about 60C to 30C above the inlet temperature making it possible to measure the output heat of the reactor without having to consider losses in the heat exchanger and accounting for the actual delta in the water temperature in the water that does flow through the reactor. Since the water flow into the reactor, the inlet water temperature, and the output water temperature of the heat exchanger (or reactor if the water does not change to steam), must be measured anyway to calculate an accurate output power for the reactor, why not eliminate the heat exchanger and simplify the number of measurements needed for an accurate calculation of the reactor’s output power.

  • Dr. Mike

    Can the water flow through Me356’s reactor be set at about 1-2 liter/minute? If it can, for a 4KW reactor the water would only be heated to about 60C to 30C above the inlet temperature making it possible to measure the output heat of the reactor without having to consider losses in the heat exchanger and accounting for the actual delta in the water temperature in the water that does flow through the reactor. Since the water flow into the reactor, the inlet water temperature, and the output water temperature of the heat exchanger (or reactor if the water does not change to steam), must be measured anyway to calculate an accurate output power for the reactor, why not eliminate the heat exchanger and simplify the number of measurements needed for an accurate calculation of the reactor’s output power.

  • Mike Henderson

    Has anyone else noticed a resemblance…?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ds7zo4TEgg

    • Ged

      They ain’t afraid o’ no science!

  • Mike Henderson

    Has anyone else noticed a resemblance…?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ds7zo4TEgg

    • Ged

      They ain’t afraid o’ no science!

  • pelgrim108

    moot

  • pelgrim108

    moot

  • Did me356 let the team open the AURA up or did he provide this picture to you?

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/23230e1f58d83f9cf57dbb132923f7a7d0e2ba2442dfd124c84e110b4af05825.png

    • That was just the “standby”-screen before the video stream started.
      It has nothing to do with me356’s reactor.

      • But the case looks about the right dimensions. What is this then?

        • It was some type of celani wire replication. Some years ago.

        • Ged

          Isn’t that the Celani design reactors from way back?

          • Cannon

            COP of a 1.1 or 1,000, if me356 doesn’t allow for broad independent builds and replications of his effect then this entire effort is useless, utterly without purpose. Science isn’t about black box tests in secret sheds in people’s backyards using “special” recipes: it’s about the open dissemination of knowledge. This will only serve to produce more “hype” in the LENR community — in the same manner as Rossi’s now fictitious “customer” (who he tried to make everyone believe was Johnson Matthey but was really himself) stirred up interest. Due to the lack of full and open disclosure to allow others to independently build systems from scratch, the result will be the same: many more months of discussion while not getting any closer to an LENR product on the market.

          • Keep calm.
            Me356 already told us his plan:
            – First MFMP will validate his claims (I guess me356 trust them most, because he met them few times before)
            – After that another idependent entity will validate it again (maybe a more reputable entity like an university)
            – And later he will give replication instructions

          • Cannon

            There’s only one acceptable plan: for him to openly disclose the knowledge to make these systems produce excess heat. Apparently, there are universal mechanisms at play (using different materials probably requires significant tweaking). A few simple pages of text could change the landscape of the world virtually overnight. I can’t believe you’re making excuses for someone so greedy to maximize their profits that they’d stall the birth of a new field of science. Because right now, ever since 1989, cold fusion has been stillborn.

          • Andrew

            I’d like to say I’d be the White Knight if I had a working Cold fusion device and give it to the world open and free, however until I’m in that position I cannot say what I’d do. It’s always easier to tell someone else to be the white knight when they have something everyone else wants including yourself.

          • SG

            Here come the zero-day accounts. But, you do make a good point in that independent replications are the next step. But I think minimizing what is about to occur today is rather myopic.

          • Cannon

            SG,

            But independent replications won’t happen for a very long time. Me356 started out in this field to prove the reality of the phenomenon to everyone in the spirit of open source — now he has grown money hungry. Giving away such know how — which could allow for excess heat utilizing an abundance of elements and reactor configurations — is too big of a risk for him. There’s a chance he may send out units for third parties to test (after another six month to year delay slowing down progress even more so), but he’s not about to share the critical knowledge to make these systems work. And until they’ve been independently built and tested by hundreds of parties, they won’t be accepted as real by the mainstream.

          • SG

            First, I think it is important to recognize the significance of what is about to occur today. The MFMP, an independent and trusted organization within the LENR community, is about to test the claims of a high COP LENR apparatus. That is a first. It is like the one small first step on the moon. Then comes much more, including independent replications, which will be crucial, I agree.

          • Ged

            Not only that. MFMP is doing it live in front of everyone with every scrap of data and methods exposed to see and comment on in real time.

          • Cannon

            Ged,

            All the data and methods exposed live won’t matter one bit if the know how to build similar systems independently isn’t shared! This test could be conducted perfectly, but without the release of knowledge on the principles that make it work we’ll just be waiting for years so that me356 can maximize his profits. Everything could be accelerated so that hundreds of replications could take place if he’d just keep his original promises. But fattening his bank account and increasing his company’s bottom line has became the ultimate goal.

          • Ged

            Wrong in so many ways. Once flight was show ti be possible by one group, many independently derived solutions to make it happen without needing to know the how if the original demonstrators–only that it was possible and what it looked like.

            Seems you are a sockpuppet though, so no use wasting time on your unimaginative noise. Use your head, and find the answers yourself, it isn’t that hard.

          • Mats002

            Calm down Cannon, have some popcorns and enjoy the show!

            First thing first.

          • Cannon

            There’s zero significance to what’s happening today. A rag tag team of researchers (albeit skilled) will go to a mystery location to test a mystery device without being told how it works or how to reproduce it from scratch. They’ll probably show a high COP that will be highly disputed and attacked on the various forums and blogs of the LENR community and totally ignored by the “mainstream” scientific community. They’ll generate a lot of discussion that goes no where because the inventor continued to break his promise (made long ago) to share his know how openly. To make a dent in the barriers that prevent these exotic techs from hitting the mainstream, we need hundreds of positives tests from hundreds of replicators around the globe. This publicity stunt won’t help make that happen.

          • Ged

            Trolls are attracted to the sweet honey scent of actual progress, no matter the outcome. Just like flies.

          • Cannon

            Me356 is the biggest troll of all time. He made huge promises to the entire community (attacking those who are secretive and insisting he would share everything) only to LIE after getting the whif of money. He could change the LENR landscape virtually overnight by sharing the know how like he promised to do (in weeks) over a year ago. Instead, he is teasing and taunting us to promote himself.

          • Cannon, I think you’ve made your point. If you continue to post the same thing over and over then maybe the troll is in the mirror.

          • John Littlemist

            I think this Cannon guy is the same who has been ranting about me356 on lenr-forum:

            https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/5224-my-last-straw-me356-moves-past-nickel-without-honoring-promise-to-share-ni-h-kno/

            Seems to be very obsessed about me356.

          • Cannon

            No, I’m not going anywhere while a sickening lying freak like Me356 is applauded and celebrated when in reality all he’s doing is trying to maximize his profits and bank account. He wants fame and notoriety while sharing NOTHING that will help other researchers reproduce LENR effects — despite the fact that he promised to do. So I’m staying right here and if you don’t like it too bad!

          • Chapman

            pssst… Dude, I don’t know where you came from, but you obviously are not familiar with the personalities involved around here.

            I have no doubt but that RIGHT NOW, LENR G is furiously texting his friends, saying, “Guys, you gotta come check out this NUT-JOB! It is like looking out the back window and seeing a crazy squirrel spazzing out over it’s own shadow on the garage wall!”

            So PLEASE, do continue (it is quite entertaining, in the same way as those sports “fail” videos of skateboarders cracking their junk on banisters), but know that you are not convincing anyone, or swaying their worldview.

          • LilyLover

            Yes, yes, you are right. Nothing is ever truly scientific. Even if Me356 allows YOU to open up and scrutinize each ml of the components, it’s not enough as we all know. So why bother? Me356 has been entangled with quantum fairy that is present and absent at the same time, whom you cannot summon at YOUR will, therefore the apparatus has no scientific value. So, let’s move on the the cat videos that offer instant tangible gratification. So, happy now?

          • Cannon

            Here is what’s scientific.

            1) Discover an effect. (Me356 has already done this.)
            2) Perform several tests to confirm the effect is real and not a measurement artifact. (Me356 has already done this.)
            3) Share the knowledge openly so others can confirm the effect.

            Number 3 is what me356 has totally FAILED to do. The only way to prove a revolutionary, paradigm shattering technology is to share the know how openly to have others confirm your results independently. That’s the scientific method. As long as only me356 has built and tested a system using the know how, these tests will prove absolutely NOTHING to the scientific community. There are well built barriers in place that prohibit radical concepts from emerging. To break through them, there needs to be hundreds of independent replications.

          • Chapman

            You had me up until #3.

            The scientific method requires no sharing. Academic Acclaim does, but the pursuit of discovery itself only requires a precise methodology of experimentation, and refinement of theory based upon hypothesis, experimentation, and observation.

            His results are either valid, or false. It is a closed relationship between himself and the universe, and sharing with YOU effects it not one bit.

            BUT… There ARE, as LilyLover points out, LOTS of funny cat videos available via youtube that might bring you a sense of contentment.

          • Cannon

            Chapman,

            If his results are not accepted by the mainstream scientific community — which will not happen without widespread replication — then the most powerful technology will be totally meaningless, do nothing to push LENR towards being accepted, and do nothing to benefit our civilization. He may very well have an amazingly powerful system, but no one other than a few hundred active followers of LENR online will believe the results. Actually, probably no more than a few thousand people will even hear about them! A COP of 100 in this series of tests by the MFMP wouldn’t do a thing to getting LENR technology accepted as anything more than quackery and snake oil. The barriers to acceptance of LENR are stronger than anyone realizes, and it will take a massive wave of replications to have ANY effect whatsoever.

            Oh, and by the way, I’m not going anywhere. Instead of watching cat videos, why don’t you watch some videos of young children starving to death while their parents cry in agony! That’s what your promoting by supporting Me356’s secrecy. I bet you’d find it fascinating. And you’d probably tell the poor child’s parents that they should go through a twelve step program before getting any assistance — because giving food directly to a starving person is horrible in your opinion!

          • Chapman

            Uh huh… And your point?

          • LilyLover

            Why watch depressing videos? All our problems could have been solved even in the absence of LENR. LENR is an easy antidote to social evil. Not as much by supplying abundance, but by eradicating desperation imposement capability of the controllers.

          • LilyLover

            Here’s what’s fantastic:
            1 Create an amazing product
            2 Create artificial need and hype it up
            3 Supply final product, keeping trade-secrets secrets (CocaCola)
            4 If the product quenches a thirst and is readily available, how does it matter wheter the proof of efficacy is estblished or not?
            When all else fails, invoke the quantum mermaid or safety laws to enforce scientific method.
            Today’s scientific method:
            Only mild progress is expectable; otherwise scientific community’s incompetence is revealed.

          • Cannon

            There’s already hundreds of beverages on the market. Even two hundred years ago there were many. Coca Cola was just one of many options and nothing special at all. However, there’s not a single LENR tech on the market today because no one has openly disclosed a set of principles to make these systems work. Once me356 shares his know how and hundreds of parties are working on a variety of implementations, he will have every right to never share another bit of information every again. But until then his secrecy only keeps the reality of LENR suppressed. To the mainstream, LENR is non-existent and a non-reality. Me356 is helping keep it that way. And, you are too! You are helping suppress the emergence of LENR by supporting this money hungry person who has broken his promises to share his know how openly with the community.

          • LilyLover

            “However, there’s not a single LENR tech on the market today…”
            … & that’s why today’s events are completely unremarkable.

          • Gerard McEk

            If you talk about science dear Cannon, than you forget some additional scientific steps: THE THEORY and PEER REVIEWS! (Therefore I am not sure you are an educated person). One should also put forward a theory of how this works and that the measurements are in accordance with it. This all should be peer reviewed and replicated.

            Science is very conservative and utterly unwilling to accept phenomena which are not in accordance with the accepted theories. They simply put their heads in the ground: ‘Can’t be true’, ‘measurement mistake’, ‘I don’t even want to look at it’, ‘Nonsense’, etc., etc, is what is their response is. The scientific world can’t be moved to do the scientific work they should do, accept a few hands full of brave LENR scientists, who are ignored and despised by the rest of the scientific community.

            Sometimes that is good, but in case the measurements leave no space for any doubt, SCIENCE SHOULD TAKE ACTION AND INVESTIGATE THIS PHENOMINON!!!!!, instead of moaning this isn’t good and that’s wrong.

            That is where all this is about!

            PS:
            ME356 is (probably) no academic, but an inventor who found out how to lit The New Fire. He just wants to see money in return of the investments he did. Why do you begrudge him that?

          • Chapman

            I have just been WATCHING this thread, and remaining silent…

            But THAT post simply DEMANDS my open applause.
            [CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP]

            That was AWESOME!!! I love the way your mind works.

          • Cannon

            Chapman,

            You just declared yourself an enemy to LENR. You would rather me356 take a long winded multi-step multi-year process to maximize his profits and prevent competition than have him disclose his know how immediately. This means you care more about his bank account than this technology emerging and being accepted as real.

          • Chapman

            Ouch… You got me THERE, Comrade.
            I guess I am just a “capitalist pig” at heart.

            You would think I would know better by this late age. I mean, after all, look at all the advanced physics and monumental discoveries coming out of Venezuela! My oh My, we are falling WAY behind, aren’t we…

          • Rene

            This is one step more than Rossi. And there are more steps to broad replications. But yes, if you only accept total openness it is best to wait it out for a while. The skeptics line is ordered by degree.

          • Cannon

            There are no need for steps! Me356 could share the know how RIGHT NOW and starting tomorrow there could be teams replicating. The whole idea of steps only equates to Me356 maximizing his profits by preventing the chance of competitors emerging due to the distribution of his know how. There is absolutely no reason for anyone here to desire “steps” to be taken towards replication. That’s like saying, “Oh, I know there’s a famine in my land and thousands of people are dying of starvation every day. However, please don’t teach us how to boost our agricultural production today. Please allow another million deaths by starting a ten step program before we gain the knowledge to actually grow more food.”

            Or, on the other hand, “steps” are like someone who is being robbed reviewing the legal code instead of punching the thug in the face.

          • Rene

            Right whatever. Watch the dataflow. Comment on that.

          • Cannon

            The data flow doesn’t matter. There’s nothing to comment on. If it shows a COP of 1 or 1000, the result is the same: years before LENR is accepted as real by the mainstream due to Me356 breaking his promise and going secretive to try and prevent competition from emerging. He’d rather stagnate the whole field than share know how, because money is his number one motivator and goal.

          • Omega Z

            ->” thousands of people are dying of starvation every day.”

            Lets start there.

            There are Universities doing R&D on growing meat in labs. Eventually to be Lab-factory production. They are open as to what they are doing including the type of cells they are brewing in petri dishes.

            The nutrients used and the process beyond that are proprietary and not disclosed. THAT is how OPEN Science really works and I wouldn’t have it any other way. You see, even if you have something that appears to work, you may be going down the wrong path. It is better that everyone goes different ways. Ultimate success is more assured.

            Note: The best & fastest way to spread a new technology into the world is by way of patents. The best way to delay that technology is to introduce it as open source public domain. Unless you mistakenly think that you can actually raise 10’s of Billion$ from kick starter.

    • Neil D.

      Pretty pictures, but how about an explanation of the mechanisms and phenomena at play?

      • Ged

        Fund an academic research team if you want that answer.

        • Neil D.

          Why fund a research team when me356 could simply keep his pledge to the community and share all the know how to make these systems work? Don’t you remember how he railed on and on against secrecy back in the early days before he started getting phenomenal results? Then, after he produced better results, he held onto those promises but started introducing delays. We don’t need a research project. The truth is that a certain blatant liar needs to keep to his word.

          • That’s exactly the plan.
            1 – MFMP confirm
            2 – Research org(s) TBD verify
            3 – small replication (3)
            4 – large community replication (100)

            Step 1. Let’s get a win on Step 1 and go from there, ok?

          • Neil D.

            LENR G,

            No, the only acceptable plan is as follows.

            1) Me356 submit a paper explaining the mechanisms and phenomena required to make LENR systems produce excess heat.

            2) Thousands of parties around the world start getting results from a wide variety of systems.

            3) Global acceptance of the reality of the phenomenon.

            Me356’s plan only protects his IP at the cost of preventing the mainstream from accepting the reality of this technology for years.

          • I disagree.

            The conventional R&D, patent, prototype and commercialization path is the usual one taken and the one being taken here apparently.

          • SG

            What is it about the plan that prevents your 2) and 3) from happening? Me356 has said that he will permit replications, on a small scale first, then on a large. We’ll get there. Yes, it might take some more time. But we’ve already waited 25+ years.

          • Ged

            Because none of that relates to your original question about knowing the mechanisms and phenomena in play. Just cause someone figures out the recipe to make a good wing for heavier than air flight does not mean they know the mechanism and phenomena behind it. Those are two different realms of questions you are erroneously conflating.

            Also, calling someone a blatant liar is unacceptable.

          • Neil D.

            He knows the mechanisms. On LENR Forums, in vague terms, he described some of them. There’s a bread crumb trail to follow that might be enough if we want to do double work to re-invent what he’s already discovered. Or we could insist that he keep to his original promises, which he made repeatedly, and share the know how with the community. Like sycophantic leeches the MFMP won’t even insist upon him keeping to word. They are simply too busy trying to make a name for themselves and gain publicity with a hyped up test of a “mysterious black box.” As far as I’m concerned, the MFMP no longer believes in the spirit of open source or they would have disavowed this blatant liar, blatant promise breaker, and blatantly selfish individual.

            No one realizes that a test like this one accomplishes nothing. Only immediate mass replication of the effect will push the reality of this phenomenon to the mainstream. Apparently, this isn’t even what the MFMP desires anymore, or they’d abandon and disavow me356 and utilize their resources on someone who would share their know how openly.

          • Ged

            No, there is no way he -knows- the mechanisms. Again, you conflate two very different ideas erroneously. We can speculate about what actually goes on in an LENR reaction, but no one knows because no one has done the high energy physics repriducibly that would be required to make the experiments needed to even start answering those questions.

            A cook may find a good recipe for what makes a delicious tart, but that in no way means the cook knows anything about how the different macromolecules and their ratios are interacting chemically together and then interacting molecularly with taste receptors within an over all physiological state experience from which the sensation of delightful taste is derived.

            Me356 may have his speculations, intuitions about what things work well together to make a desired result found by empiricle experimentation like any cook, but he does Not have the technology to find out what is actually going on.

            If you want to know mechanism rather than speculation, go fund some high energy physics labs.

            If you want to know the particular conditions, recipe, me356 is using to make his reactor, that indeed you need to find out from him.

            MFMP’s data will be helpful to deal with some speculations and disprove them (based on radiation spectra and types), but will not be able to answer the phenomena and mechanisms question. The test will also help cons train some of what recipe ingredients there could be, though.

            The rest of your post is useless tripe. Me356 is not a blatant liar and you can demonstrate nothing. You also fail to even grasp what line open science is: to stream the data live to all with the methods to gain that data tranaparantly known. That is exactly what is happening. You just want a soap box to rail against nothing, and to that the answer is go somewhere else, as you contribute nothing for you understand nothing.

    • Stephen

      I hope this thread can stick to real technical points. Real criticism that improves the test is welcome in my view. Blanket posting of disruptive hate based posts to hide real useful facts and information is not.

      It’s stunning to see what you guys are up against. Ignore them and stay on course with what’s important. The test.

      Stephen

      • Cannon

        So you consider opposition to someone who is intentionally allowing the LENR field to stagnate by withholding know how he specifically PROMISED (repeatedly) to share openly in a very SHORT period of time (he specifically mentioned weeks) as hate speech? This individual is taking advantage of the entire LENR community for his personal gain. With a few pages of text he could reveal information that could allow for hundreds of replications to take place. No longer would replicators have to deal with a 99% failure rate. Instead, they would have to strive to control the enormous excess heat produced. But this man along with Bob Greenyer has all of you brainwashed. Because all of you obviously think it’s better that the knowledge to make LENR systems work be held hostage by Me356 than be openly shared.

        • Stephen Taylor

          You seem to assume that me356 actually has something. That remains an unknown.

  • Did me356 let the team open the AURA up or did he provide this picture to you?

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/23230e1f58d83f9cf57dbb132923f7a7d0e2ba2442dfd124c84e110b4af05825.png

    • That was just the “standby”-screen before the video stream started.
      It has nothing to do with me356’s reactor.

      • But the case looks about the right dimensions. What is this then?

        • It was some type of celani wire replication. Some years ago.

        • Ged

          Isn’t that the Celani design reactors from way back?

    • Neil D.

      Pretty pictures, but how about an explanation of the mechanisms and phenomena at play?

      • Ged

        Fund an academic research team if you want that answer.

        • Neil D.

          Why fund a research team when me356 could simply keep his pledge to the community and share all the know how to make these systems work? Don’t you remember how he railed on and on against secrecy back in the early days before he started getting phenomenal results? Then, after he produced better results, he held onto those promises but started introducing delays. We don’t need a research project. The truth is that a certain blatant liar needs to keep to his word.

          • That’s exactly the plan.
            1 – MFMP confirm
            2 – Research org(s) TBD verify
            3 – small replication (3)
            4 – large community replication (100)

            Step 1. Let’s get a win on Step 1 and go from there, ok?

          • Neil D.

            LENR G,

            No, the only acceptable plan is as follows.

            1) Me356 submit a paper explaining the mechanisms and phenomena required to make LENR systems produce excess heat.

            2) Thousands of parties around the world start getting results from a wide variety of systems.

            3) Global acceptance of the reality of the phenomenon.

            Me356’s plan only protects his IP at the cost of preventing the mainstream from accepting the reality of this technology for years.

          • I disagree.

            The conventional R&D, patent, prototype and commercialization path is the usual one taken and the one being taken here apparently.

          • SG

            What is it about the plan that prevents your 2) and 3) from happening? Me356 has said that he will permit replications, on a small scale first, then on a large. We’ll get there. Yes, it might take some more time. But we’ve already waited 25+ years.

          • Ged

            Because none of that relates to your original question about knowing the mechanisms and phenomena in play. Just cause someone figures out the recipe to make a good wing for heavier than air flight does not mean they know the mechanism and phenomena behind it. Those are two different realms of questions you are erroneously conflating.

            Also, calling someone a blatant liar is unacceptable.

          • Neil D.

            He knows the mechanisms. On LENR Forums, in vague terms, he described some of them. There’s a bread crumb trail to follow that might be enough if we want to do double work to re-invent what he’s already discovered. Or we could insist that he keep to his original promises, which he made repeatedly, and share the know how with the community. Like sycophantic leeches the MFMP won’t even insist upon him keeping to word. They are simply too busy trying to make a name for themselves and gain publicity with a hyped up test of a “mysterious black box.” As far as I’m concerned, the MFMP no longer believes in the spirit of open source or they would have disavowed this blatant liar, blatant promise breaker, and blatantly selfish individual.

            No one realizes that a test like this one accomplishes nothing. Only immediate mass replication of the effect will push the reality of this phenomenon to the mainstream. Apparently, this isn’t even what the MFMP desires anymore, or they’d abandon and disavow me356 and utilize their resources on someone who would share their know how openly.

          • Ged

            No, there is no way he -knows- the mechanisms. Again, you conflate two very different ideas erroneously. We can speculate about what actually goes on in an LENR reaction, but no one knows because no one has done the high energy physics repriducibly that would be required to make the experiments needed to even start answering those questions.

            A cook may find a good recipe for what makes a delicious tart, but that in no way means the cook knows anything about how the different macromolecules and their ratios are interacting chemically together and then interacting molecularly with taste receptors within an over all physiological state experience from which the sensation of delightful taste is derived.

            Me356 may have his speculations, intuitions about what things work well together to make a desired result found by empiricle experimentation like any cook, but he does Not have the technology to find out what is actually going on.

            If you want to know mechanism rather than speculation, go fund some high energy physics labs.

            If you want to know the particular conditions, recipe, me356 is using to make his reactor, that indeed you need to find out from him.

            MFMP’s data will be helpful to deal with some speculations and disprove them (based on radiation spectra and types), but will not be able to answer the phenomena and mechanisms question. The test will also help constrain some of what recipe ingredients there could be, though.

            The rest of your post is useless tripe. Me356 is not a blatant liar and you can demonstrate nothing. You also fail to even grasp what live open science is: to stream the data live to all with the methods to gain that data transparantly known. That is exactly what is happening. You just want a soap box to rail against nothing, and to that the answer is go somewhere else, as you contribute nothing for you understand nothing.

  • 15:58 UTC – Ran into a problem with a backwards wired plug which would cause problems with the controller. We are sorting it out and trying to figure out which plug we can reverse to make it right. Good thing Me356 checked it out.

  • 15:58 UTC – Ran into a problem with a backwards wired plug which would cause problems with the controller. We are sorting it out and trying to figure out which plug we can reverse to make it right. Good thing Me356 checked it out.

  • Cannon

    COP of a 1.1 or 1,000, if me356 doesn’t allow for broad independent builds and replications of his effect then this entire effort is useless, utterly without purpose. Science isn’t about black box tests in secret sheds in people’s backyards using “special” recipes: it’s about the open dissemination of knowledge. This will only serve to produce more “hype” in the LENR community — in the same manner as Rossi’s now fictitious “customer” (who he tried to make everyone believe was Johnson Matthey but was really himself) stirred up interest. Due to the lack of full and open disclosure to allow others to independently build systems from scratch, the result will be the same: many more months of discussion while not getting any closer to an LENR product on the market.

    • Keep calm.
      Me356 already told us his plan:
      – First MFMP will validate his claims (I guess me356 trust them most, because he met them few times before)
      – After that another idependent entity will validate it again (maybe a more reputable entity like an university)
      – And later he will give replication instructions

      • Cannon

        There’s only one acceptable plan: for him to openly disclose the knowledge to make these systems produce excess heat. Apparently, there are universal mechanisms at play (using different materials probably requires significant tweaking). A few simple pages of text could change the landscape of the world virtually overnight. I can’t believe you’re making excuses for someone so greedy to maximize their profits that they’d stall the birth of a new field of science. Because right now, ever since 1989, cold fusion has been stillborn.

        • Andrew

          I’d like to say I’d be the White Knight if I had a working Cold fusion device and give it to the world open and free, however until I’m in that position I cannot say what I’d do. It’s always easier to tell someone else to be the white knight when they have something everyone else wants including yourself.

    • SG

      Here come the zero-day accounts. But, you do make a good point in that independent replications are the next step. But I think minimizing what is about to occur today is rather myopic.

      • Cannon

        SG,

        But independent replications won’t happen for a very long time. Me356 started out in this field to prove the reality of the phenomenon to everyone in the spirit of open source — now he has grown money hungry. Giving away such know how — which could allow for excess heat utilizing an abundance of elements and reactor configurations — is too big of a risk for him. There’s a chance he may send out units for third parties to test (after another six month to year delay slowing down progress even more so), but he’s not about to share the critical knowledge to make these systems work. And until they’ve been independently built and tested by hundreds of parties, they won’t be accepted as real by the mainstream.

        • SG

          First, I think it is important to recognize the significance of what is about to occur today. The MFMP, an independent and trusted organization within the LENR community, is about to test the claims of a high COP LENR apparatus. That is a first. It is like the one small first step on the moon. Then comes much more, including independent replications, which will be crucial, I agree.

          • Ged

            Not only that. MFMP is doing it live in front of everyone with every scrap of data and methods exposed to see and comment on in real time.

          • Cannon

            Ged,

            All the data and methods exposed live won’t matter one bit if the know how to build similar systems independently isn’t shared! This test could be conducted perfectly, but without the release of knowledge on the principles that make it work we’ll just be waiting for years so that me356 can maximize his profits. Everything could be accelerated so that hundreds of replications could take place if he’d just keep his original promises. But fattening his bank account and increasing his company’s bottom line has became the ultimate goal.

          • Ged

            Wrong in so many ways. Once flight was show to be possible by one group, many independently derived solutions to make it happen without needing to know the how of the original demonstrators–only that it was possible and what it looked like.

            Seems you are a sockpuppet though, so no use wasting time on your unimaginative noise. Use your head, and find the answers yourself, it isn’t that hard.

          • Mats002

            Calm down Cannon, have some popcorns and enjoy the show!

            First thing first.

          • Cannon

            There’s zero significance to what’s happening today. A rag tag team of researchers (albeit skilled) will go to a mystery location to test a mystery device without being told how it works or how to reproduce it from scratch. They’ll probably show a high COP that will be highly disputed and attacked on the various forums and blogs of the LENR community and totally ignored by the “mainstream” scientific community. They’ll generate a lot of discussion that goes no where because the inventor continued to break his promise (made long ago) to share his know how openly. To make a dent in the barriers that prevent these exotic techs from hitting the mainstream, we need hundreds of positives tests from hundreds of replicators around the globe. This publicity stunt won’t help make that happen.

          • Sucks for you that he gets to do it the way he wants to. And frankly that’s the bare minimum he’s entitled to if his reactor actually works.

            Plus you overlook the broader significance. If this LENR+ reactor works with high COP, it almost certainly means that Rossi’s E-Cats work and their commercialization would seem to be very close. It also means that all the other players, Brillouin, Clean Planet, Lenuco/IH etc. also have reactors that work at some level.

            Game ON. A positive result today means it’s a race to commercialization with all the others knowing that me356 is going to beat them unless they get off their asses.

        • Cannon

          He’s not entitled to do diddly squat. If he didn’t want to openly share his know how on how to make these system works, then he shouldn’t have repeatedly railed against secrecy and promised to share all the knowledge required to allow others to produce these effects. Furthermore, he accepted exhaustive advice from Bob Greenyer (in addition to expensive equipment) on the promise he would abide by the spirit of open source. Instead, after being overwhelmed by the lure of profits, he desires to keep all the knowledge to himself. This is unacceptable.

          Work privately. Don’t make promises. Don’t tease the LENR community. He could have retained the right to “do it the way he wants” but he forfeited that by his taunting posts and multiple promises. You don’t promise a hungry man a hamburger to snatch it away from him at the last moment, and you don’t promise to share how to make an enormously important technology work only to go secretive.

          He doesn’t deserve our support: only our contempt.

      • Ged

        Trolls are attracted to the sweet honey scent of actual progress, no matter the outcome. Just like flies.

        • Cannon

          Me356 is the biggest troll of all time. He made huge promises to the entire community (attacking those who are secretive and insisting he would share everything) only to LIE after getting the whif of money. He could change the LENR landscape virtually overnight by sharing the know how like he promised to do (in weeks) over a year ago. Instead, he is teasing and taunting us to promote himself.

          • Cannon, I think you’ve made your point. If you continue to post the same thing over and over then maybe the troll is in the mirror.

          • John Littlemist

            I think this Cannon guy is the same who has been ranting about me356 on lenr-forum:

            https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/5224-my-last-straw-me356-moves-past-nickel-without-honoring-promise-to-share-ni-h-kno/

            Seems to be very obsessed about me356.

          • Cannon

            No, I’m not going anywhere while a sickening lying freak like Me356 is applauded and celebrated when in reality all he’s doing is trying to maximize his profits and bank account. He wants fame and notoriety while sharing NOTHING that will help other researchers reproduce LENR effects — despite the fact that he promised to do. So I’m staying right here and if you don’t like it too bad!

          • Chapman

            pssst… Dude, I don’t know where you came from, but you obviously are not familiar with the personalities involved around here.

            I have no doubt but that RIGHT NOW, LENR G is furiously texting his friends, saying, “Guys, you gotta come check out this NUT-JOB! It is like looking out the back window and seeing a crazy squirrel spazzing out over it’s own shadow on the garage wall!”

            So PLEASE, do continue (it is quite entertaining, in the same way as those sports “fail” videos of skateboarders cracking their junk on banisters), but know that you are not convincing anyone, or swaying their worldview.

        • HAL9000

          I did not know that requiring scientific method including proof of replication was an act of trolling. Thank you for educating us.

    • LilyLover

      Yes, yes, you are right. Nothing is ever truly scientific. Even if Me356 allows YOU to open up and scrutinize each ml of the components, it’s not enough as we all know. So why bother? Me356 has been entangled with quantum fairy that is present and absent at the same time, whom you cannot summon at YOUR will, therefore the apparatus has no scientific value. So, let’s move on the the cat videos that offer instant tangible gratification. So, happy now?

      • Cannon

        Here is what’s scientific.

        1) Discover an effect. (Me356 has already done this.)
        2) Perform several tests to confirm the effect is real and not a measurement artifact. (Me356 has already done this.)
        3) Share the knowledge openly so others can confirm the effect.

        Number 3 is what me356 has totally FAILED to do. The only way to prove a revolutionary, paradigm shattering technology is to share the know how openly to have others confirm your results independently. That’s the scientific method. As long as only me356 has built and tested a system using the know how, these tests will prove absolutely NOTHING to the scientific community. There are well built barriers in place that prohibit radical concepts from emerging. To break through them, there needs to be hundreds of independent replications.

        • Chapman

          You had me up until #3.

          The scientific method requires no sharing. Academic Acclaim does, but the pursuit of discovery itself only requires a precise methodology of experimentation, and refinement of theory based upon hypothesis, experimentation, and observation.

          His results are either valid, or false. It is a closed relationship between himself and the universe, and sharing with YOU effects it not one bit.

          BUT… There ARE, as LilyLover points out, LOTS of funny cat videos available via youtube that might bring you a sense of contentment.

          • Cannon

            Chapman,

            If his results are not accepted by the mainstream scientific community — which will not happen without widespread replication — then the most powerful technology will be totally meaningless, do nothing to push LENR towards being accepted, and do nothing to benefit our civilization. He may very well have an amazingly powerful system, but no one other than a few hundred active followers of LENR online will believe the results. Actually, probably no more than a few thousand people will even hear about them! A COP of 100 in this series of tests by the MFMP wouldn’t do a thing to getting LENR technology accepted as anything more than quackery and snake oil. The barriers to acceptance of LENR are stronger than anyone realizes, and it will take a massive wave of replications to have ANY effect whatsoever.

            Oh, and by the way, I’m not going anywhere. Instead of watching cat videos, why don’t you watch some videos of young children starving to death while their parents cry in agony! That’s what your promoting by supporting Me356’s secrecy. I bet you’d find it fascinating. And you’d probably tell the poor child’s parents that they should go through a twelve step program before getting any assistance — because giving food directly to a starving person is horrible in your opinion!

          • Chapman

            Uh huh… And your point?

          • LilyLover

            Why watch depressing videos? All our problems could have been solved even in the absence of LENR. LENR is an easy antidote to social evil. Not as much by supplying abundance, but by eradicating desperation imposement capability of the controllers.

        • LilyLover

          Here’s what’s fantastic:
          1 Create an amazing product
          2 Create artificial need and hype it up
          3 Supply final product, keeping trade-secrets secrets (CocaCola)
          4 If the product quenches a thirst and is readily available, how does it matter wheter the proof of efficacy is estblished or not?
          When all else fails, invoke the quantum mermaid or safety laws to enforce scientific method.
          Today’s scientific method:
          Only mild progress is expectable; otherwise scientific community’s incompetence is revealed.

          • Cannon

            There’s already hundreds of beverages on the market. Even two hundred years ago there were many. Coca Cola was just one of many options and nothing special at all. However, there’s not a single LENR tech on the market today because no one has openly disclosed a set of principles to make these systems work. Once me356 shares his know how and hundreds of parties are working on a variety of implementations, he will have every right to never share another bit of information every again. But until then his secrecy only keeps the reality of LENR suppressed. To the mainstream, LENR is non-existent and a non-reality. Me356 is helping keep it that way. And, you are too! You are helping suppress the emergence of LENR by supporting this money hungry person who has broken his promises to share his know how openly with the community.

          • LilyLover

            “However, there’s not a single LENR tech on the market today…”
            … & that’s why today’s events are completely unremarkable.

        • Gerard McEk

          If you talk about science dear Cannon, than you forget some additional scientific steps: THE THEORY and PEER REVIEWS! (Therefore I am not sure you are an educated person). One should also put forward a theory of how this works and that the measurements are in accordance with it. This all should be peer reviewed and replicated.

          Science is very conservative and utterly unwilling to accept phenomena which are not in accordance with the accepted theories. They simply put their heads in the ground: ‘Can’t be true’, ‘measurement mistake’, ‘I don’t even want to look at it’, ‘Nonsense’, etc., etc, is what is their response is. The scientific world can’t be moved to do the scientific work they should do, accept a few hands full of brave LENR scientists, who are ignored and despised by the rest of the scientific community.

          Sometimes that is good, but in case the measurements leave no space for any doubt, SCIENCE SHOULD TAKE ACTION AND INVESTIGATE THIS PHENOMINON!!!!!, instead of moaning this isn’t good and that’s wrong.

          That is where all this is about!

          PS:
          ME356 is (probably) no academic, but an inventor who found out how to lit The New Fire. He just wants to see money in return of the investments he did. Why do you begrudge him that?

      • Chapman

        I have just been WATCHING this thread, and remaining silent…

        But THAT post simply DEMANDS my open applause.
        [CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP]

        That was AWESOME!!! I love the way your mind works.

        • Cannon

          Chapman,

          You just declared yourself an enemy to LENR. You would rather me356 take a long winded multi-step multi-year process to maximize his profits and prevent competition than have him disclose his know how immediately. This means you care more about his bank account than this technology emerging and being accepted as real.

          • Chapman

            Ouch… You got me THERE, Comrade.
            I guess I am just a “capitalist pig” at heart.

            You would think I would know better by this late age. I mean, after all, look at all the advanced physics and monumental discoveries coming out of Venezuela! My oh My, we are falling WAY behind, aren’t we…

    • Rene

      This is one step more than Rossi. And there are more steps to broad replications. But yes, if you only accept total openness it is best to wait it out for a while. The skeptics line is ordered by degree.

      • Cannon

        There are no need for steps! Me356 could share the know how RIGHT NOW and starting tomorrow there could be teams replicating. The whole idea of steps only equates to Me356 maximizing his profits by preventing the chance of competitors emerging due to the distribution of his know how. There is absolutely no reason for anyone here to desire “steps” to be taken towards replication. That’s like saying, “Oh, I know there’s a famine in my land and thousands of people are dying of starvation every day. However, please don’t teach us how to boost our agricultural production today. Please allow another million deaths by starting a ten step program before we gain the knowledge to actually grow more food.”

        Or, on the other hand, “steps” are like someone who is being robbed reviewing the legal code instead of punching the thug in the face.

        • Rene

          Right whatever. Watch the dataflow. Comment on that.

          • Cannon

            The data flow doesn’t matter. There’s nothing to comment on. If it shows a COP of 1 or 1000, the result is the same: years before LENR is accepted as real by the mainstream due to Me356 breaking his promise and going secretive to try and prevent competition from emerging. He’d rather stagnate the whole field than share know how, because money is his number one motivator and goal.

        • Omega Z

          ->” thousands of people are dying of starvation every day.”

          Lets start there.

          There are Universities doing R&D on growing meat in labs. Eventually to be Lab-factory production. They are open as to what they are doing including the type of cells they are brewing in petri dishes.

          The nutrients used and the process beyond that are proprietary and not disclosed. THAT is how OPEN Science really works and I wouldn’t have it any other way. You see, even if you have something that appears to work, you may be going down the wrong path. It is better that everyone goes different ways. Ultimate success is more assured.

          Note: The best & fastest way to spread a new technology into the world is by way of patents. The best way to delay that technology is to introduce it as open source public domain. Unless you mistakenly think that you can actually raise 10’s of Billion$ from kick starter.

  • when they resume streaming it will be via a new youtube URL right?

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Since we know now the mass of the complete device (1612.5 g), we can calculate some ‘chemical limits’, based on the energy released by the same mass of reactants:

    (1) 2H2 + O2: 25.59 MJ = 7.11 kWh

    (2) H2 only (with external supply of oxygen): 228.65 MJ = 63.51 kWh

    I think that figure (1) is already safe enough. Exceeding figure (2) should definitely rule out a conventional chemical source.

    • Mats002

      So with 3kW output at COP 10 it should run for at least 23 hours, right?

      • Andreas Moraitis

        You can look at the “Total Excess Energy Estimate” field on the dashboard:

        https://freeboard.io/board/MwMhlL

      • Ged

        Edit: oops, you meant 3 kW as output not input (so input being 300 W). Yes indeed, that would be enough to exceed all possible chemical even if one used the Entire weight of the device as fuel.

        • Mats002

          Thanks Ged.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Just read that the mass of the box without cables amounts to 872 g. So we can multiply all values by 0.54. (Maybe MFMP could dissect the cables after the test to satisfy M.Y. and Co.)

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Since we know now the mass of the complete device (1612.5 g), we can calculate some ‘chemical limits’, based on the energy released by the same mass of reactants:

    (1) 2H2 + O2: 25.59 MJ = 7.11 kWh

    (2) H2 only (with external supply of oxygen): 228.65 MJ = 63.51 kWh

    I think that figure (1) is already safe enough. Exceeding figure (2) should definitely rule out a conventional chemical source.

    • Mats002

      So with 3kW output at COP 10 it should run for at least 23 hours, right?

      • Andreas Moraitis

        You can look at the “Total Excess Energy Estimate” field on the dashboard:

        https://freeboard.io/board/MwMhlL

      • Ged

        Edit: oops, you meant 3 kW as output not input (so input being 300 W). Yes indeed, that would be enough to exceed all possible chemical even if one used the Entire weight of the device as fuel.

        • Mats002

          Thanks Ged.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Just read that the mass of the box without cables amounts to 872 g. So we can multiply all values by 0.54. (Maybe MFMP could dissect the cables after the test to satisfy M.Y. and Co.)

  • Mark

    i didn’t catch when the next broadcast is. Are they going for a COP>1 today? will it be live streamed

    • Ged

      Yes to both, using the bucket method. They are solving an electrical plug issue at the moment though, last I read.

  • Mark

    i didn’t catch when the next broadcast is. Are they going for a COP>1 today? will it be live streamed

    • Ged

      Yes to both, using the bucket method. They are solving an electrical plug issue at the moment though, last I read.

  • lrao

    Too messy in terms of the cabling arrangement and physical area.

    Why not spend 1/2 hour doing some nice cable management, so that cables are neatly arranged and easy to follow? and in particular can be easily seen as _separate_ from the rest of the mess in the lab?

    Move everything far from the wood table where the experiment is been run, make it neatly arranged.

    If I were to do this, I would straighten the cables out, put them against a piece of particle board and hold them with plastic ties. Even put some labels in the particle board, so that each cable’s function can be read. This way one can easily follow all the potential current or energy going into the area, also the cables related to the measurement equipment, etc. Neatly arranged. And much easy to follow and avoiding the feeling that there is something hidden in the mess of cables lying on the floor.

    That would’ve been a really good way to spend 1/2 hour.

    • Cannon

      Too bad the LENR community is guaranteed to lose on this game show regardless of the COP. The fact the know how to allow for independent replications is being with held makes the contest rigged. There will be tons of discussion and debate but none of the hundreds of independent replications required to convince the world of the reality of this field.

    • Cannon

      Too bad the LENR community is guaranteed to lose on this game show regardless of the COP. The fact the know how to allow for independent replications is being with held makes the contest rigged. There will be tons of discussion and debate but none of the hundreds of independent replications required to convince the world of the reality of this field.

  • John Littlemist

    I think this Cannon guy is the same who has been ranting about me356 on LENR forum:

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/5224-my-last-straw-me356-moves-past-nickel-without-honoring-promise-to-share-ni-h-kno/

    Seems to be very obsessed about me356.

    • BlackP

      That guy also had the aliases “Hank Mills” and “Mr Selfsustain”.

      He made some guest posts here….

      • Ged

        I seriously doubt that is actually Hank Mills.

        • LukeDC

          Hank had gone a little rogue over at LENR Forum

    • Rene

      He keeps repeating the same point, which though has validity, is annoying.

      • Cannon

        I find it very annoying that all of you are worshiping Me356 after he flat out lied to all of us. He’s a promise breaker and infected with inventors syndrome characterized by a desire to keep all the know how to himself and to have 100% of the marketshare not matter what. Just like Patterson, he’ll end up with nothing and the know how will never be disclosed.

  • Rene

    Wow, there is a loud delayed feedback echo in that vid.

  • Rene

    Wow, there is a loud delayed feedback echo in that vid. For anyone watching the vid, the echo problem was fixed at time index 6:22

  • We need to have Me356 start the reactor and then leave before we can stream video.
    Delayed for oven fresh pastries…

    FML

    • “Me356 has started controller. Power draw of controller 4.8. Pump is making a cycling pulse on the power.”

    • Cannon

      I would rather starve to death than eat a pastry in the same room as the lying and promise breaking Me356. People like me356 should be despised and ridiculed instead of celebrated.

      • Your first sentence is a lie. Your second sentence is ridiculous and a decisively minority opinion. So STFU now.

        • Cannon

          No, it is the truth. And I’m NOT shutting up. I have principles, and I would rather die than eat in the same room with Me356. And, trust me, I know what hunger feels like. And the second statement is only a minority opinion because Bob (Secrecy Rules) Greenyer has brainwashed everyone into praising Me356 for breaking his promises and going secretive. This is a totally messed up situation, totally orwellian. For people in the LENR community to be praising Me356 is like a woman who has been snagged off the street to be praising and falling in love with her kidnapper. Me356 is holding the entire LENR community hostage by withholding his PROMISED TO BE SHARED OPENLY know how. He isn’t doing any thing positive for this community. This whole demonstration is just a publicity stunt.

          • Look, I believe in diversity of opinions and free speech.

            But you’re being very repetitive and somewhat slanderous. Surely you must know that. If you’re worried you haven’t gotten through to us, don’t worry. We understand your point about me356’s secrecy. Subjecting his reactor to live open science can only be seen as a step in a positive direction.

          • Cannon

            I’ll go further. Me356 is intentionally and hideously manipulating the entire LENR community for his own financial benefit. He entered the scene years ago acting as if he was truly a supporter of the field and desired to be totally open with his results. Then, as time went by, he continued to make specific promises that he’d share everything! In reality, he was just data mining for information, interesting patents, advice from experts like Bob Greenyer, and any thing that could help him build a commercial device that could make him millions or billions of dollars. Once he met the goal of producing a highly powerful system, he broke all of his promises and ran off to develop a product. He doesn’t care about this community or LENR being accepted by the mainstream. All that matters to him is that his company makes a fortune with ZERO competition.

          • Entirely possible. But most here only care if the tech works not who brings it to market. This test will help sort that out.

          • Ged

            I guess me356 secretly genocided his entire tribe, to evoke such hyperbol. The trolling has been fun, but this is a technical analysis thread so it is time to get rid of these disruptors. They can always go to the always open thread to practice their shark jumping.

            You’ve put in a lot of good comments and pointstowards them that will be helpful to other lurkers, so not a complete loss!

          • Chapman

            Uh-oh Cannon… Now you done it! You pissed off LENR G!

            It’s like my mom used to say. “Foolishness is one thing, but horseplay is all fine and dandy until SOMEONE losses an eye!”

            Well, hombre… your eye rolled over there, by the door, you better pick it up before someone steps on it….

            LENR G don’t put up with nonsense, and you done got his attention, in the wrong way.

            You shouldn’t have done THAT! Cause now HE is gonna call BACHOLE! And you do NOT want to deal with HIM! BACHOLE has real life intellectual ninja skills man.

            Bachole will post just three sentences, and have you running in tears, breaking your keyboard, and calling your mom, trying to figure out where your life went wrong…

            Bets you be heading back to where you come from now. Get, while the gettin’s good.

          • I gotta say your squirrel imagery below made me LOL.

          • Chapman

            Then my work here is done!

            I will go back to my EM Drive contemplations, and just quietly track the status of things over here from time to time. But don’t hurt the guy; he “rides the short bus to school”, if you get my meaning, and every kingdom NEEDS it’s court-jester.

          • Ged

            Monomorphic has left me on a cliff hanger this week. Such an amazing setup, but no time to test it yet? Noooo.

          • Ged

            LENR G is too clever for me. But Bachole… That man is unstoppable :(.

          • LilyLover

            If he discloses everything after a year, does he qualify for “better late than never” discount from you? Can you answer this question honestly? Genuine query, not a wordplay.

    • Ged

      LENR is powered by the magic of delicious pastries.

      • I knew it!

        • artefact

          Carbon!

  • We need to have Me356 start the reactor and then leave before we can stream video.
    Delayed for oven fresh pastries…

    FML

    • “Me356 has started controller. Power draw of controller 4.8. Pump is making a cycling pulse on the power.”

    • Cannon

      I would rather starve to death than eat a pastry in the same room as the lying and promise breaking Me356. People like me356 should be despised and ridiculed instead of celebrated.

      • Your first sentence is a lie. Your second sentence is ridiculous and a decisively minority opinion. So STFU now.

        • Cannon

          No, it is the truth. And I’m NOT shutting up. I have principles, and I would rather die than eat in the same room with Me356. And, trust me, I know what hunger feels like. And the second statement is only a minority opinion because Bob (Secrecy Rules) Greenyer has brainwashed everyone into praising Me356 for breaking his promises and going secretive. This is a totally messed up situation, totally orwellian. For people in the LENR community to be praising Me356 is like a woman who has been snagged off the street to be praising and falling in love with her kidnapper. Me356 is holding the entire LENR community hostage by withholding his PROMISED TO BE SHARED OPENLY know how. He isn’t doing any thing positive for this community. This whole demonstration is just a publicity stunt.

          • Look, I believe in diversity of opinions and free speech.

            But you’re being very repetitive and somewhat slanderous. Surely you must know that. If you’re worried you haven’t gotten through to us, don’t worry. We understand your point about me356’s secrecy. Subjecting his reactor to live open science can only be seen as a step in a positive direction.

          • Cannon

            I’ll go further. Me356 is intentionally and hideously manipulating the entire LENR community for his own financial benefit. He entered the scene years ago acting as if he was truly a supporter of the field and desired to be totally open with his results. Then, as time went by, he continued to make specific promises that he’d share everything! In reality, he was just data mining for information, interesting patents, advice from experts like Bob Greenyer, and any thing that could help him build a commercial device that could make him millions or billions of dollars. Once he met the goal of producing a highly powerful system, he broke all of his promises and ran off to develop a product. He doesn’t care about this community or LENR being accepted by the mainstream. All that matters to him is that his company makes a fortune with ZERO competition.

          • Entirely possible. But most here only care if the tech works not who brings it to market. This test will help sort that out.

          • Ged

            I guess me356 secretly genocided his entire tribe, to evoke such hyperbol. The trolling has been fun, but this is a technical analysis thread so it is time to get rid of these disruptors. They can always go to the always open thread to practice their shark jumping.

            You’ve put in a lot of good comments and points towards them that will be helpful to other lurkers, so not a complete loss!

          • Chapman

            Uh-oh Cannon… Now you done it! You pissed off LENR G!

            It’s like my mom used to say. “Foolishness is one thing, but horseplay is all fine and dandy until SOMEONE losses an eye!”

            Well, hombre… your eye rolled over there, by the door, you better pick it up before someone steps on it….

            LENR G don’t put up with nonsense, and you done got his attention, in the wrong way.

            You shouldn’t have done THAT! Cause now HE is gonna call BACHOLE! And you do NOT want to deal with HIM! BACHOLE has real life intellectual ninja skills man.

            Bachole will post just three sentences, and have you running in tears, breaking your keyboard, and calling your mom, trying to figure out where your life went wrong…

            Bets you be heading back to where you come from now. Get, while the gettin’s good.

          • I gotta say your squirrel imagery below made me LOL.

          • Chapman

            Then my work here is done!

            I will go back to my EM Drive contemplations, and just quietly track the status of things over here from time to time. But don’t hurt the guy; he “rides the short bus to school”, if you get my meaning, and every kingdom NEEDS it’s court-jester.

          • Ged

            Monomorphic has left me on a cliff hanger this week. Such an amazing setup, but no time to test it yet? Noooo.

          • Ged

            LENR G is too clever for me. But Bachole… That man is unstoppable :(.

          • LilyLover

            If he discloses everything after a year, does he qualify for “better late than never” discount from you? Can you answer this question honestly? Genuine query, not a wordplay.

    • Mats002

      Thank God it wasn’t the FBI rushing in! ^^

    • Ged

      LENR is powered by the magic of delicious pastries.

      • I knew it!

        • artefact

          Carbon!

  • pelgrim108

    There is a new plot.ly stream.
    https://plot.ly/~QuantumHeat/29

  • pelgrim108

    There is a new plot.ly stream.
    https://plot.ly/~QuantumHeat/29

  • LilyLover

    Let me provide some cannonfodder to the Cannon. Or, should I better spend my time on Nikon?
    Once ECCO reactor gets tested with all open source replication information, here’s your strategy Cannon:
    How can you trust an ug,ly old man? If he was smart enough, he should have done everything in his youth. It took him so many years to come up with this reactor clearly means that he is not bright. Therefore, his reactor cannot really be functional. If his reactor were functional, he wodn’t bother with “proving to us”, he would rather have sold millions of those and reaped billions in profit. Is he rich? No! That must mean that the technology is fake!
    And yes, please move onto cat videos. I produced too much cannon fodder today.

    • Cannon

      I’d much rather this thread be filled with your dis-coherent ramblings than worship of a greedy liar who is hindering advancement of LENR by refusing to share know how. So, please, continue to post them. You’re words and sentences might as well be random text.

      • Mats002

        Frank – where is moderation today?

        • LilyLover

          No, No, No!!
          It takes a loose cannon to bring even the fiercest of the enemies support each other. He is greatly unifying the ECatters. Let him!!

          • Chapman

            HERE HERE!

            In addition, there is a need for entertainment between the data releases! I dare say that anyone who finds him offensive, or distracting, can easily block him and focus only on the substantive posts. But for SOME of us he is as funny as the super bowl halftime commercials!

            And, lets face it… LilyLover is going into halftime with a 98-0 lead!!!

          • Cannon

            Go ahead and support Me356. Gather together and hold services bowing down and singing songs in his support. Ignore the fact that no test results he shares (without massive third party replications) will change the current situation whatsoever. LENR will still be languishing in obscurity years from now while me356 is still holding his know how secret. In 2020 you’ll finally wake up from the trance, look at each other, and realize due to his lack of willingness to share know how, NOTHING was accomplished.

          • Ged

            No… I think this is legitimately getting out of hand. Saying he would rather die then eat in the same room as me356 is a level of hyperbol that is certifiable insanity. I know it is fun in a perverse way to watch someone troll as if they were having a stroke, but this is a test thread where we should be dealing with technical issues and support of the methods/data analysis going on, and the sockpuppets Cannon/Nikon are disrupting our science.

          • Mats002

            Ok – play with that mouse then ^^

        • Cannon

          The best moderation he could do is ban discussion of Me356 from this site.

          • radvar

            Frank, someone left the door open and a troll came in…

  • LilyLover

    Let me provide some cannonfodder to the Cannon. Or, should I better spend my time on Nikon?
    Once ECCO reactor gets tested with all open source replication information, here’s your strategy Cannon:
    How can you trust an ug,ly old man? If he was smart enough, he should have done everything in his youth. It took him so many years to come up with this reactor clearly means that he is not bright. Therefore, his reactor cannot really be functional. If his reactor were functional, he wodn’t bother with “proving to us”, he would rather have sold millions of those and reaped billions in profit. Is he rich? No! That must mean that the technology is fake!
    And yes, please move onto cat videos. I produced too much cannon fodder today.

    • Cannon

      I’d much rather this thread be filled with your dis-coherent ramblings than worship of a greedy liar who is hindering advancement of LENR by refusing to share know how. So, please, continue to post them. You’re words and sentences might as well be random text.

      • Epi

        I think your insults need some moderation. If you don´t like it here then search for someone who is going to do it your way…

      • Mats002

        Frank – where is moderation today?

        • LilyLover

          No, No, No!!
          It takes a loose cannon to bring even the fiercest of the enemies support each other. He is greatly unifying the ECatters. Let him!!

          • Chapman

            HERE HERE!

            In addition, there is a need for entertainment between the data releases! I dare say that anyone who finds him offensive, or distracting, can easily block him and focus only on the substantive posts. But for SOME of us he is as funny as the super bowl halftime commercials!

            And, lets face it… LilyLover is going into halftime with a 98-0 lead!!!

          • Cannon

            Go ahead and support Me356. Gather together and hold services bowing down and singing songs in his support. Ignore the fact that no test results he shares (without massive third party replications) will change the current situation whatsoever. LENR will still be languishing in obscurity years from now while me356 is still holding his know how secret. In 2020 you’ll finally wake up from the trance, look at each other, and realize due to his lack of willingness to share know how, NOTHING was accomplished.

          • Ged

            No… I think this is legitimately getting out of hand. Saying he would rather die then eat in the same room as me356 is a level of hyperbol that is certifiable insanity. I know it is fun in a perverse way to watch someone troll as if they were having a stroke, but this is a test thread where we should be dealing with technical issues and support of the methods/data analysis going on, and the sockpuppets Cannon/Neil are disrupting our science.

          • Mats002

            Ok – play with that mouse then ^^

        • Cannon

          The best moderation he could do is ban discussion of Me356 from this site.

      • HAL9000

        I have to agree that if (I said IF) replication is not a clear part of this claimant’s intention, then this mission serves primarily as a good warm-up for validating other claimant’s claims. That said, it is time to move on. Many people, including me, have spent time on this thread for years hoping for some spectacular event. Let them have their day.

  • James Thomas

    IMO, Cannon is like a pressure relief valve letting go of the steam of frustration that many of us feel to some degree or another.

  • Stephen

    I hope this thread can stick to real technical points. Real criticism that improves the test is welcome in my view. Blanket posting of disruptive hate based posts to hide real useful facts and information is not.

    It’s stunning to see what you guys are up against. Ignore them and stay on course with what’s important. The test.

    Stephen

  • artefact
  • artefact
  • interstellar hobo

    I hope their test gets good data. Very good of them to travel out there. Good luck, MFMP.

  • Barbierir

    @Cannon STFU

  • SG

    So much for getting any work done today. LOL.

    • Ged

      I hear ya!

  • SG

    So much for getting any work done today. LOL.

    • Ged

      I hear ya!

  • Svein Arild Utne

    Has the input and output temp been switched?

  • Svein Arild Utne

    Has the input and output temp been switched?

  • nietsnie

    I have questionable Plot.ly “Flow, Temperature, Power” output. It says, “An hour ago.” at the top of the page – and it doesn’t change. I’ve tried updating the page several times but the result is the same. This by comparison to the “Radiation” plot – which says “In a few seconds” and seems to be updating. Anyone getting current data for temp?

    • pelgrim108
      • nietsnie

        I have the same problems with this one. Maybe my throughput is the problem.

    • Ged

      Plot.ly has been giving me trouble for days. Dunno what is up. Try doing an autoscale resizing, as it might help get it refreshing.

      • nietsnie

        That sometimes works for me – thanks. Or, at least the current time is now 18:55 UTC – which is close to correct (although it still thinks it’s ‘an hour ago’ at the top of the page). Any idea why the inlet temp is 10C higher than the outlet and rising? Are the leads switched?

        • pelgrim108

          Have you tried dragging the timescale to the left?

          • nietsnie

            I have now – no change. But, I can autoscale periodically to update.

            Now output temp on Plot.ly is off altogether. That is – the output plot ended at 18:58:31 and now it’s several minutes later.

          • nietsnie

            For the past 20 minutes I’m only getting ‘power’ and ‘inlet’ (which has now risen to 35.59C). I hope this clears up.

          • SG

            Same.

          • Ged

            Freeboard https://freeboard.io/board/MwMhlL seems to be working for immediate data. Combining that with the broken Plot.ly site helps, but is annoying to have to jump between just because Plot.ly’s scripts have gone down hill from a year ago.

          • nietsnie

            Thanks – yes, that’s something at least.

    • AdrianAshfield

      It looks like MFMP are doing a sparge test to start with so their main instrumentation will not be seeing the output of the reactor yet

      • artefact

        From the test log:
        “The graph of temp and power is looking extremely interesting. It will require spreadsheet analysis to see if it saying what it looks like at a glance.”

        • Andreas Moraitis

          One might guess that the stable temperature rise is simply a consequence of thermal inertia. Unfortunately, a ‘true’ blank run for comparison is not possible – it would require an empty reactor. But the question if there is excess heat or not is certainly much more important than such details.

          • artefact

            From the test log chat: Bob wrote: “There was no excess in the previous section, me356 said same. me356 says there may be something in it now”

          • Ged

            They have the inline water heater to use as a method control at least.

        • interstellar hobo

          So did ME356 try this experiment himself before they arrived to actually see if it would work? I would hate to think they traveled that far to stir a bucket of cold water.

          • Ged

            I don’t think so. He made a fresh reactor and fresh fuel and finished prepping it the day before they came to his place. He could always dissect it or make another as it sounds like they’ve got time.

            Something sounds really off with the heating. Maybe the coils aren’t working right or there is a short.

  • nietsnie

    I have questionable Plot.ly “Flow, Temperature, Power” output. It says, “An hour ago.” at the top of the page – and it doesn’t change. I’ve tried updating the page several times but the result is the same. This by comparison to the “Radiation” plot – which says “In a few seconds” and seems to be updating. Anyone getting current data for temp?

    • pelgrim108
      • nietsnie

        I have the same problems with this one. Maybe my throughput is the problem.

    • Ged

      Plot.ly has been giving me trouble for days. Dunno what is up. Try doing an autoscale resizing, as it might help get it refreshing.

      • nietsnie

        That sometimes works for me – thanks. Or, at least the current time is now 18:55 UTC – which is close to correct (although it still thinks it’s ‘an hour ago’ at the top of the page). Any idea why the inlet temp is 10C higher than the outlet and rising? Are the leads switched?

        • pelgrim108

          Have you tried dragging the timescale to the left?

          • nietsnie

            I have now – no change. But, I can autoscale periodically to update.

            Now output temp on Plot.ly is off altogether. That is – the output plot ended at 18:58:31 and now it’s several minutes later.

          • nietsnie

            For the past 20 minutes I’m only getting ‘power’ and ‘inlet’ (which has now risen to 35.59C). I hope this clears up.

          • SG

            Same.

          • Ged

            Freeboard https://freeboard.io/board/MwMhlL seems to be working for immediate data. Combining that with the broken Plot.ly site helps, but is annoying to have to jump between just because Plot.ly’s scripts have gone down hill from a year ago.

          • nietsnie

            Thanks – yes, that’s something at least.

    • AdrianAshfield

      It looks like MFMP are doing a sparge test to start with so their main instrumentation will not be seeing the output of the reactor yet

  • Ged

    I seriously doubt that is actually Hank Mills.

    • LukeDC

      Hank had gone a little rogue over at LENR Forum

  • greggoble

    The ‘race to market’ LENR energy… Me356, Rossi, Brillouin, NASA, Global Energy Corporation (Forsely, SPAWAR et.al.), Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Toyota, Indian Head Division (U.S. Army lab), Boeing, GE… this list is not exhaustive. All are following different paths to “race to market”.

    I enjoy discussing any of these folks efforts, mostly sharing my opinion that this field is more advanced than any of us are aware of.

    Issues of maximizing power gain and direct nuclear/electric production, also applied engineering developed for utilizing LENR energy, are reasons to keep this under wraps till one has gained an edge, i.e. mastery of the technology.

    Rossi is following that path as is the U.S. Navy and NASA. MFMP a bit different path… Me356 perhaps one in between… What’s wrong with that?

    • radvar

      Interesting summary. I’ve alway$ felt there wa$ much more going on than wa$ made public. Regardle$$ of the probability, there wa$ ju$t too much con$equence for it to be ignored.

      • greggoble

        Ha… I wish that all my S’s were like that.

  • greggoble

    The ‘race to market’ LENR energy… Me356, Rossi, Brillouin, NASA, Global Energy Corporation (Forsely, SPAWAR et.al.), Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Toyota, Indian Head Division (U.S. Army lab), Boeing, GE… this list is not exhaustive. All are following different paths to “race to market”.

    I enjoy discussing any of these folks efforts, mostly sharing my opinion that this field is more advanced than any of us are aware of.

    Issues of maximizing power gain and direct nuclear/electric production, also applied engineering developed for utilizing LENR energy, are reasons to keep this under wraps till one has gained an edge, i.e. mastery of the technology.

    Rossi is following that path as is the U.S. Navy and NASA. MFMP a bit different path… Me356 perhaps one in between… What’s wrong with that? I’m pleased with the openness that he is demonstrating.

  • AdrianAshfield

    less time wasted than reading your comment. You obviously have not been following the story or at least failed to understand what happened.

  • artefact

    From the test log:
    “The graph of temp and power is looking extremely interesting. It will require spreadsheet analysis to see if it saying what it looks like at a glance.”

    • Andreas Moraitis

      One might guess that the stable temperature rise is simply a consequence of thermal inertia. Unfortunately, a ‘true’ blank run for comparison is not possible – it would require an empty reactor. But the question if there is excess heat or not is certainly much more important than such details.

      • artefact

        From the test log chat: Bob wrote: “There was no excess in the previous section, me356 said same. me356 says there may be something in it now”

      • Ged

        They have the inline water heater to use as a method control at least.

  • radvar

    Sounds like you are experiencing some kind of personal suffering.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    The protocol seems to indicate a COP of 2.6. Not bad if correct!

    • Ged

      That would be very good!

    • artefact

      They corrected it. 0.69 overall at the moment.

      • Ged

        Powerfully endothermic!

        • artefact

          he copied that from rossi to get rid of a lot of heat 🙂

          • Ged

            37C in and 19C out is a little suspicious for such a small thermal mass. Dunno what is up.

          • Mats002

            The running mouse is going the wrong direction?

          • Adam Lepczak

            me356 invented a heat sucking device to solve global warming problem!

      • Andreas Moraitis

        I’m getting 0.72. Does me356 have an explanation?

  • Andreas Moraitis

    The protocol seems to indicate a COP of 2.6. Not bad if correct!

    • Ged

      That would be very good!

    • artefact

      They corrected it. 0.69 overall at the moment.

      • Ged

        Powerfully endothermic!

        • artefact

          he copied that from rossi to get rid of a lot of heat 🙂

          • Ged

            37C in and 19C out is a little suspicious for such a small thermal mass. Dunno what is up.

            Edit: speaking of, why is the input water at body temp anyways? Where is it coming from that is that hot? Edit2: ah, inlet of the heat exchanger not the device is what it it says on Freeboard. I guess the exchanger could cool it all. But what is the input to the device?

          • Mats002

            The running mouse is going the wrong direction?

          • Adam Lepczak

            me356 invented a heat sucking device to solve global warming problem!

      • Andreas Moraitis

        I’m getting 0.72. Does me356 have an explanation?

  • LION

    Love the videos, a BIG THANKS to me356 for allowing testing by MFMP.

  • LION

    Love the videos, a BIG THANKS to me356 for allowing testing by MFMP.

  • Rene

    It’s having problems.
    Bob is attempting to channel Maxwell’s daemon 🙂
    Looks like the pump was over cooling the core quenching the reaction.?

    • Ged

      Possible. If it can’t get up to temp then nothing should happen, so that is encouraging in an accidental way. At least we know all the measuring systems are working and debugged then.

      • Discouraging so far. But yes, an indication that everyone is an honest broker at least.

        • Ged

          No false positives is definitely a good thing, I think. If the device was just making heat without needing to be in the LENR initiation zone, that would be bad–and now we know it doesn’t, so that rules out an RTG ;).

          • We cherish our small victories here in LENR-land.

          • Ged

            We hold them near and dear to our hearts.

          • nietsnie

            Small victories add up. True courage is not of the fire that rages, but of the ember that *will not* be ground out.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            At least, we have our ‘blank run’. The measured loss might be useful information in the context of future attempts.

      • Rene

        agreed.
        I am surprised that me356’s raspberry PI control does not control the pump flow & rate parameters.

        • artefact

          the cable was broken and they had to set it manually.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Actually integration of the pump control had not been completed on this reactor.

  • Rene

    It’s having problems.
    Bob is attempting to channel Maxwell’s daemon 🙂
    Looks like the pump was over cooling the core quenching the reaction.?

    • Ged

      Possible. If it can’t get up to temp then nothing should happen, so that is encouraging in an accidental way. At least we know all the measuring systems are working and debugged then.

      • Discouraging so far. But yes, an indication that everyone is an honest broker at least.

        • Ged

          No false positives is definitely a good thing, I think. If the device was just making heat without needing to be in the LENR initiation zone, that would be bad–and now we know it doesn’t, so that rules out an RTG ;).

          • We cherish our small victories here in LENR-land.

          • Ged

            We hold them near and dear to our hearts.

          • nietsnie

            Small victories add up. True courage is not of the fire that rages, but of the ember that *will not* be ground out.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            At least, we have our ‘blank run’. The measured loss might be useful information in the context of future attempts.

      • Rene

        agreed.
        I am surprised that me356’s raspberry PI control does not control the pump flow & rate parameters.

        • artefact

          the cable was broken and they had to set it manually.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Actually integration of the pump control had not been completed on this reactor.

  • archelon

    When is the real test starting. And what was the first part about???

    • Ged

      They are trying to test it right now, but discovering the joys of technical difficulties that always happen. Don’t worry, they are all getting sorted.

  • artefact

    Too much backpressure from the copper pipe under water. The steam can not flow through. Normally steam should be produced even without fuel. They say.

    • Rene

      That’s easy enough to prove if they were to lift the coil out of the bucket.

    • Ged

      That is a weakness of sparging. Gotta have enough pressure to push through the weight of the water.

      • Stephen

        Yup curious, I’m sure it can be explained somehow but curious how. Are the heat losses through that short length of rubber pipe sufficient to explain that?

        Is the cooling as the steam flows through the copper pipe of the sparger in the bucket involved or are the heat losses necessarily occurring before this?

        Would be interesting and “cool” if the device was working in some endothermic way.

        But it’s obviously much more likely it’s due to losses. I’m just curious what they could be and if they add up suffiently. Also if we need to take these losses into account with the remaining tests.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Let’s say the water column had a height of 0.3 m, then the backpressure would come to 0.03 barG. Not enough to reduce the steam flow significantly, IMO. If the device is so sensitive that it may fail due to tiny variations of the flow, this would be an intrinsic problem. But I think that’s as well unlikely.

      • Ged

        They say in the log that once they removed the copper sparger from the bucket and let the water drain from the pipe, that they saw steam coming out. Seems the water weight and coldness did indeed stop the steam from making it through as steam. Just means there wasn’t enough heat and the steam was probably wet and low percentage.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          They might have seen some vapour although only a small fraction of the water had changed its phase (remember the 1 : 1700 ratio). If there had been a lot of steam, the hose would not have been able to absorb all the energy. Yes, there was obviously not enough output.

  • artefact

    Too much backpressure from the copper pipe under water. The steam can not flow through. Normally steam should be produced even without fuel. They say.

    • Rene

      That’s easy enough to prove if they were to lift the coil out of the bucket.

    • Ged

      That is a weakness of sparging. Gotta have enough pressure to push through the weight of the water.

      Edit: something definitely seems wrong as there is way less heat than there should be for the input power they have going into the thing. 600 W and only 75 C? COP of 0.69 (a 31% loss of energy)? Hmmm. Where is the heat going?

      • Stephen

        Im no expert but I guess the steam is condensing in the sparging device causing vacuum that sucks in water before it can emit the steam.

        Perhaps the sparging pipe itself should be lagged.

        Yup curious about the heat losses too. I’m sure it can be explained somehow but curious how. Are the heat losses through that short length of rubber pipe sufficient to explain that?

        Is the cooling as the steam flows through the copper pipe of the sparger in the bucket involved or are the heat losses necessarily occurring before this?

        Would be interesting and “cool” if the device was working in some endothermic way.

        But it’s obviously much more likely it’s due to losses. I’m just curious what they could be and if they add up suffiently. Also if we need to take these losses into account with the remaining tests.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Let’s say the water column had a height of 0.3 m, then the backpressure would come to 0.03 barG. Not enough to reduce the steam flow significantly, IMO. If the device is so sensitive that it may fail due to tiny variations of the flow, this would be an intrinsic problem. But I think that’s as well unlikely.

      • Ged

        They say in the log that once they removed the copper sparger from the bucket and let the water drain from the pipe, that they saw steam coming out. Seems the water weight and coldness did indeed stop the steam from making it through as steam. Just means there wasn’t enough heat and the steam was probably wet and low percentage.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          They might have seen some vapour although only a small fraction of the water had changed its phase (remember the 1 : 1700 ratio). If there had been a lot of steam, the hose would not have been able to absorb all the energy. Yes, there was obviously not enough output.

  • interstellar hobo

    So did ME356 try this experiment himself before they arrived to actually see if it would work? I would hate to think they traveled that far to stir a bucket of cold water.

    • Ged

      I don’t think so. He made a fresh reactor and fresh fuel and finished prepping it the day before they came to his place. He could always dissect it or make another as it sounds like they’ve got time.

      Something sounds really off with the heating. Maybe the coils aren’t working right or there is a short.

  • Ged

    They are trying to test it right now, but discovering the joys of technical difficulties that always happen. Don’t worry, they are all getting sorted.

  • artefact

    They make a different test tomorrow morning with the heat exchanger to that the steam can flow more freely.

    • Ged

      Hopefully there are plenty of days left for more!

  • artefact

    They make a different test tomorrow morning with the heat exchanger to that the steam can flow more freely.

    • Ged

      Hopefully there are plenty of days left for more!

  • Rene

    They ran a calibration test using a 3KW electric heater. That definitely showed a temp rise in the open bucket. So, far less than 3KW was coming out of that reactor. The copper coil was under at most a foot of water, which is less than 1/2 PSI. The pump definitely puts out more pressure than that since it is a positive displacement impulse device with a one-way valve.
    I think the reactor wasn’t working and needs me 356 to find out what broke.

    • Stephen

      I’m wondering if in addition to pressure head if there was Insufficient steam flow. If so then if cooling of the steam in the copper pipe occurs when in the bucket perhaps it would condense in the pipe sufficiently to cause a vacuums sufficient to suck water from the bucket into the pipe?

  • Rene

    They ran a calibration test using a 3KW electric heater. That definitely showed a temp rise in the open bucket. So, far less than 3KW was coming out of that reactor. The copper coil was under at most a foot of water, which is less than 1/2 PSI. The pump definitely puts out more pressure than that since it is a positive displacement impulse device with a one-way valve.
    I think the reactor wasn’t working and needs me 356 to find out what broke.

    • Stephen

      I’m wondering if in addition to pressure head if there was Insufficient steam flow. If so then if cooling of the steam in the copper pipe occurs when the pipe is in the bucket due to the cooler water there. Perhaps it would start to condense in the pipe sufficiently to cause a vacuums sufficient to suck water from the bucket into the pipe and preventing sparging taking place?

      If I understand right for sparging to work the steam should leave the copper pipe in the gas phase as steam not hot water.

      If so perhaps it would be better if the copper pipe used to sparging the steam was also well insulated?

  • greggoble

    LENR Quiz – What year and what patent?

    This invention takes advantage of the non-singular electrostatic potential and the newly predicted interactions between the electrons and protons that make up a deuteron and provides the conditions that bring about a fusion between two deuterons to form a helium atom. The preferential fusion of two deuterium atoms into a helium atom is brought about by preconditioning the deuterons in space and in their alignment with respect to each other. This conditioning is obtained by placing the deuterons into a crystalline lattice to hold them near each other. The crystalline lattice is placed in a strong magnetic controlling field to magnetically align the spins of the deuterium nuclei thereby starting the reaction. The addition of the heat causes the deuterium nuclei to vibrate within the crystalline lattice and this provides their motion with respect to each other which increases the reaction rate.

    • artefact

      September 2013 🙂

      • greggoble

        Bingo…

        Deuterium Reactor US 20130235963 A1
        Publication date: Sep 12, 2013 – Priority date: Mar 12, 2012
        $25,000 was received in 2008 from NSWC, Indian Head Division, to design experiments, review reports, and analyze data. The experiments verified heating using powdered/granulated fuel.
        http://www.google.com/patents/US20130235963A!

        gbgoblenote – As a United States Department of Defense (DoD) Energetics Center, Naval Surface Warfare Center, Indian Head Division is a critical component of the Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) Warfare Center (WFC) Enterprise. One of the WFC’s nine Divisions, Indian Head’s mission is to research, develop, test, evaluate, and produce energetics and energetic systems for US fighting forces.

        Energetics are explosives, propellants, pyrotechnics, reactive materials, related chemicals and fuels and their application in propulsion systems and ordnance.

        As the largest DoD full spectrum energetics facility and leader in the Navy’s energetics enterprise, NSWC Indian Head employs a workforce of more than 1,400, of which more than 850 are scientists, engineers, and technicians dedicated to developing and sustaining explosives, propellants, pyrotechnics, high-energy chemicals and their application to warfighting systems. In addition, NSWC Indian Head has the largest concentration of PhDs working in Energetics in the WFC, including the highest number of synthesis chemists, detonation physicists, and formulation scientists dedicated to the energetics National competency.

        Also, this leads us to the following two items of reading interest…

        The only patent cited in the preceding patent, which is…

        “Low temperature fusion” US 20090122940 A1
        http://www.google.com/patents/US20090122940A1

        Also a LENR theoretical paper…

        “Can Established Physical Principles Explain Solid-State Fusion?” page 503 – Proceedings of the 14th International Conference on Cold Fusion – Volume II
        http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/NagelDJproceedinga.pdf

        Both by a gentleman by the name of Ben R. Breed. A review of his patent history gives one an idea of his background.
        https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=ininventor:%22Ben+R.+Breed%22&gws_rd=ssl

        Till tomorrow… Hoping for a smooth successful test.

  • greggoble

    LENR Quiz – What year and what patent?

    This invention takes advantage of the non-singular electrostatic potential and the newly predicted interactions between the electrons and protons that make up a deuteron and provides the conditions that bring about a fusion between two deuterons to form a helium atom. The preferential fusion of two deuterium atoms into a helium atom is brought about by preconditioning the deuterons in space and in their alignment with respect to each other. This conditioning is obtained by placing the deuterons into a crystalline lattice to hold them near each other. The crystalline lattice is placed in a strong magnetic controlling field to magnetically align the spins of the deuterium nuclei thereby starting the reaction. The addition of the heat causes the deuterium nuclei to vibrate within the crystalline lattice and this provides their motion with respect to each other which increases the reaction rate.

    Could that little box off the back of the reactor be a magnet/electro-magnet?

    • artefact

      September 2013 🙂

      • greggoble

        Bingo…

        Deuterium Reactor US 20130235963 A1
        Publication date: Sep 12, 2013 – Priority date: Mar 12, 2012
        $25,000 was received in 2008 from NSWC, Indian Head Division, to design experiments, review reports, and analyze data. The experiments verified heating using powdered/granulated fuel.
        http://www.google.com/patents/US20130235963A!

        gbgoblenote – Quote from their website – As a United States Department of Defense (DoD) Energetics Center, Naval Surface Warfare Center, Indian Head Division is a critical component of the Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) Warfare Center (WFC) Enterprise. One of the WFC’s nine Divisions, Indian Head’s mission is to research, develop, test, evaluate, and produce energetics and energetic systems for US fighting forces.

        Energetics are explosives, propellants, pyrotechnics, reactive materials, related chemicals and fuels and their application in propulsion systems and ordnance.

        As the largest DoD full spectrum energetics facility and leader in the Navy’s energetics enterprise, NSWC Indian Head employs a workforce of more than 1,400, of which more than 850 are scientists, engineers, and technicians dedicated to developing and sustaining explosives, propellants, pyrotechnics, high-energy chemicals and their application to warfighting systems. In addition, NSWC Indian Head has the largest concentration of PhDs working in Energetics in the WFC, including the highest number of synthesis chemists, detonation physicists, and formulation scientists dedicated to the energetics National competency. – end quote

        Also, this leads us to the following two items of reading interest…

        The only patent cited in the preceding patent, which is…

        “Low temperature fusion” US 20090122940 A1
        http://www.google.com/patents/US20090122940A1

        and a LENR theoretical paper…

        “Can Established Physical Principles Explain Solid-State Fusion?” page 503 – Proceedings of the 14th International Conference on Cold Fusion – Volume II
        http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/NagelDJproceedinga.pdf

        Both by a gentleman by the name of Ben R. Breed. A review of his patent history gives one an idea of his background.
        https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=ininventor:%22Ben+R.+Breed%22&gws_rd=ssl

        Till tomorrow… Hoping for a smooth successful test.

  • Mats002

    So this was a Null test, nor positive, nor negative.

    Truth vs NiH LENR+ 1-1

    Next game tomorrow.

  • Mats002

    So this was a Null test, nor positive, nor negative.

    Truth vs NiH LENR+ 1-1

    Next game tomorrow.

  • LukeDC

    Anyone know why Bob pulled the sparge test vid? I am in Australia and the time offset sees the live science happening in the middle of the night for me.

    • Mats002

      Time to get some sleep I suppose.

      • LukeDC

        I went to bed just before the sparge test and got up hoping to see the video but the link above shows “video unavailable”

        • Mats002

          The link goes to the live feed which they switched off for today.

      • Rene

        Bob, maybe me356 has already done this, but, raspberry PIs are notorious for emitting tons of RFI if they are not grounded. It is especially bad because the little switching supply often used to power them is not grounded so the RFI from the PI travels on all wires connected to it.
        I ran into this problem with my noise monitors. The sound pressure meter preamps picked up the RFI raising the noise floor over 15dB.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Thanks good to know

          • artefact

            Morning. When will the test continue?

          • Bob Greenyer

            me has some sickness in his family and has been unable to condition the reactor, we are going to get more insulation for the flow calorimeter and then apply it and see where he is after that.

          • Toussaint françois

            Will me256 be able to tune his reactor today ?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes

  • LukeDC

    Anyone know why Bob pulled the sparge test vid? I am in Australia and the time offset sees the live science happening in the middle of the night for me.

    • Mats002

      Time to get some sleep I suppose.

      • LukeDC

        I went to bed just before the sparge test and got up hoping to see the video but the link above shows “video unavailable”

        • Mats002

          The link goes to the live feed which they switched off for today.

  • Engineer48

    Some numbers to think about.

    1MW of superheated dry steam a day, at 1 atmo pressure, represents 36,000 litres of input water.

    Therefore per 1kW of output needs 1.5 litres of water per hour plus the superheated steam is invisible.

    While measuring the output energy is great, a simple way to start is to adjust the input water rate so the steam exiting into the air is invisible (dry). Then increase the flow rate until the steam is visible (wet) and then back off the flow rate until it is again invisible.

    Energy in the dry steam is then ~1kW / 1.5 litres per hour of intake water.

  • Engineer48

    Some numbers to think about.

    1MW of superheated dry steam a day, at 1 atmo pressure, represents 36,000 litres of input water.

    Therefore per 1kW of output needs 1.5 litres of water per hour plus the superheated steam is invisible.

    While measuring the output energy is great, a simple way to start is to adjust the input water rate so the steam exiting into the air is invisible (dry). Then increase the flow rate until the steam is visible (wet) and then back off the flow rate until it is again invisible.

    Energy in the invisible dry steam is then ~1kW / 1.5 litres per hour of intake water.

    • Luca Meli

      Great

  • I’ve seen comments on a couple of topics here below—just a few thoughts from my side:

    1. The first test apparently failed. That happens. I’ve been through that a couple of times with Rossi’s tests too. Most frustrating was in Uppsala in April 2012, where the calorimetry set-up was calibrated with high accuracy and a positive test would have been conclusive. But the reactor broke and then time ran out. However, you just need to pick up the ball again. Patience.

    2. Calorimetry calibration. I have not been following the MFMP’s documentation in detail (I rarely have time to watch videos and listen to sound files—Frank does a great job, however, to summarise in text—thanks! Quicker to digest.), and I don’t know how well calibrated their calorimetry set-up is, but I guess it’s top-notch as usual, and that’s good in that case. The steam sparging will only give a hint.

    3. I find the discussion interesting on how to spread successful LENR results to the world. Some believe you should immediately make all details public, for the world’s best. Others think it’s the inventor’s right (specifically if it’s an ‘inventor’ rather than a ‘scientist’) to keep the details secret and try putting a working product on the market, convincing the world in that way. I’m still not sure which way is the wisest. To those two perspectives, however, I think you should add the safety aspect. At this point I have realised that apart from potentially unknown hazards with LENR reactions such as not easily detectable muon radiation, there are risks related to the incredibly high energy density that you as an inventor might feel responsible for, wanting to research the process extensively before making your knowledge public. It’s not an easy choice.

    Keep up the good work MFMP!

    • Omega Z

      An inventor will produce a product for market as soon as the product is percieved as ready.

      A scientist will spend years analyzing every step forward even when it is past acceptable to be a product. There is just a different mentality. Note that Universities and scientists apply for shared patents rights. I think as a rule that Universities claim 50%.

    • Mats002

      About safety and muons:

      From Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon:

      “In 2003, the scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory developed a new imaging technique: muon scattering tomography. With muon scattering tomography, both incoming and outgoing trajectories for each particle are reconstructed, such as with sealed aluminum drift tubes.[26] Since the development of this technique, several companies have started to use it.”

      If the device is a muon producer it can be detected and since muons go through matter (it penetrates deep into earth) it would’nt react much going through biological matter. If muons are a health hazard I wunder why ‘several companies have started to use it’.

    • Gullstrom?

  • I’ve seen comments on a couple of topics here below—just a few thoughts from my side:

    1. The first test apparently failed. That happens. I’ve been through that a couple of times with Rossi’s tests too. Most frustrating was in Uppsala in April 2012, where the calorimetry set-up was calibrated with high accuracy and a positive test would have been conclusive. But the reactor broke and then time ran out. However, you just need to pick up the ball again. Patience.

    2. Calorimetry calibration. I have not been following the MFMP’s documentation in detail (I rarely have time to watch videos and listen to sound files—Frank does a great job, however, to summarise in text—thanks! Quicker to digest.), and I don’t know how well calibrated their calorimetry set-up is, but I guess it’s top-notch as usual, and that’s good in that case. The steam sparging will only give a hint.

    3. I find the discussion interesting on how to spread successful LENR results to the world. Some believe you should immediately make all details public, for the world’s best. Others think it’s the inventor’s right (specifically if it’s an ‘inventor’ rather than a ‘scientist’) to keep the details secret and try putting a working product on the market, convincing the world in that way. I’m still not sure which way is the wisest. To those two perspectives, however, I think you should add the safety aspect. At this point I have realised that apart from potentially unknown hazards with LENR reactions such as not easily detectable muon radiation, there are risks related to the incredibly high energy density that you as an inventor might feel responsible for, wanting to research the process extensively before making your knowledge public. It’s not an easy choice.

    Keep up the good work MFMP!

    • Omega Z

      An inventor will produce a product for market as soon as the product is percieved as ready.

      A scientist will spend years analyzing every step forward even when it is past acceptable to be a product. There is just a different mentality. Note that Universities and scientists apply for shared patents rights. I think as a rule that Universities claim 50%.

    • Mats002

      About safety and muons:

      From Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon:

      “In 2003, the scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory developed a new imaging technique: muon scattering tomography. With muon scattering tomography, both incoming and outgoing trajectories for each particle are reconstructed, such as with sealed aluminum drift tubes.[26] Since the development of this technique, several companies have started to use it.”

      If the device is a muon producer it can be detected and since muons go through matter (it penetrates deep into earth) it would’nt react much going through biological matter. If muons are a health hazard I wunder why ‘several companies have started to use it’.

    • Gullstrom?

  • shrinemiko

    Hi everyone…
    MFMP is doing a great job! And they are just getting going!
    I (naively) thought it might be helpful to post a reference of 10kw of generated steam.
    What was generated today was far less than 3kw! Check it out!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbX89hXAnXY

    Hope that puts things in perspective!
    Cheers!

  • Bob Greenyer

    Hi All,

    Thanks for your attention – we learned a lot today, me356 will use the metrics he has that are unavailable to us (like core temperature and pressure) to tweak the reactor and fuel processing before our flow calorimetry run 1 tomorrow.

    We incorporated as much as possible from everyone’s sparge testing advice but to no avail, for whatever reason, no measurable excess was seen in this run.

    We did see ultrasonic sound signature and gained a range of bonus insight into the claimed device which we can go over in a livestream tomorrow.

    Have a good night/evening from all of us here… ‘somewhere in Eastern Europe’

    • Ged

      Hope you rest well and are having fun! Doing this for us all who can’t is very appreciated. We shall see what the next run shows, and looking forward to hearing those insights. Mysterious ultrasounds eh?

      • Bob Greenyer

        It is exhausting – for us and me356. Full respect to him for allowing the test.

        We need to find the optimum way to give him the best chance of giving the AURA it’s best shot during this next test

        • Bob, please keep the cameras off for the first time.

          You should give me356 the possibility to manage the start up of the system and intervene quickly if necessary.
          When the reactor is up and running he can leave the room (with a good feeling) and care about his familiy. And you can turn on the cameras again.

          The data is more important then the video. I guess most agree with that.

          • Bob Greenyer

            That is what we agreed to do with him yesterday.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Hi All,

    Thanks for your attention – we learned a lot today, me356 will use the metrics he has that are unavailable to us (like core temperature and pressure) to tweak the reactor and fuel processing before our flow calorimetry run 1 tomorrow.

    We incorporated as much as possible from everyone’s sparge testing advice but to no avail, for whatever reason, no measurable excess was seen in this run.

    We did see ultrasonic sound signature and gained a range of bonus insight into the claimed device which we can go over in a livestream tomorrow.

    Have a good night/evening from all of us here… ‘somewhere in Eastern Europe’

    • Ged

      Hope you rest well and are having fun! Doing this for us all who can’t is very appreciated. We shall see what the next run shows, and looking forward to hearing those insights. Mysterious ultrasounds eh?

      • Bob Greenyer

        It is exhausting – for us and me356. Full respect to him for allowing the test.

        We need to find the optimum way to give him the best chance of giving the AURA it’s best shot during this next test

        • Bob, please keep the cameras off for the first time.

          You should give me356 the possibility to manage the start up of the system and intervene quickly if necessary.
          When the reactor is up and running he can leave the room (with a good feeling) and care about his familiy. And you can turn on the cameras again.

          The data is more important then the video. I guess most agree with that.

          • Bob Greenyer

            That is what we agreed to do with him yesterday.

  • Rene

    Bob, maybe me356 has already done this, but, raspberry PIs are notorious for emitting tons of RFI if they are not grounded. It is especially bad because the little switching supply often used to power them is not grounded so the RFI from the PI travels on all wires connected to it.
    I ran into this problem with my noise monitors. The sound pressure meter preamps picked up the RFI raising the noise floor over 15dB.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Thanks good to know

      • artefact

        Morning. When will the test continue?

        • Bob Greenyer

          me has some sickness in his family and has been unable to condition the reactor, we are going to get more insulation for the flow calorimeter and then apply it and see where he is after that.

          • Toussaint françois

            Will me256 be able to tune his reactor today ?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes

  • greggoble

    Great… you’ve all got me to study up.
    Steam Thermodynamics
    Thermodynamics of steam and condensate applications
    From the Engineering ToolBox
    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steam-thermodynamics-t_12.html

  • Frank Acland

    There is a new thread started a new thread for today’ activity: http://www.e-catworld.com/2017/05/27/mfmp-and-me356-testing-saturday-may-27/

  • Frank Acland

    There is a new thread started a new thread for today’s activity: http://www.e-catworld.com/2017/05/27/mfmp-and-me356-testing-saturday-may-27/