MFMP Plan and Proposal Regarding ECCO Device

Below is a summary written by Ryan Hunt of the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project of the Hangout meeting that was held this afternoon.

Summary of Live Hangout on 7/13/17

MFMP has been planning to do a validation test of the ECCO device in Mumbai for a few months now. We have known for over a month that Suhas, the inventor, has a loan guaranteed by the real estate for his lab and all the equipment and the bank is in the late stages of foreclosure now. We have learned, now, Suhas has just in the last few days made a deal to sell his ultrasonics technology to a company that has a very specific pipe cleaning application for it.

The deal includes the foundational tech and the prototype ECCO apparatus. This would very likely result in no further open work on his LENR device. This deal will be finalized at the end of July and includes some ongoing consulting to implement the pipe cleaner in an industrial plant.

Suhas has been relatively open about how the fuel for the ECCO device was made and how the device is constructed. He has sent Bob samples of the raw material, the finished fuel and the ash, all of which were tested and reported on. Suhas has stated his interest in making his technology open on several occasions. Unfortunately, Suhas had to find a way out of his financial predicament.

Next week, Bob Greenyer and George Egely will fly over to do the long awaited test with a lightweight set of instruments and will try to do the tests live on video. If the tests look positive and convincing enough, Ryan Hunt will fly over and join them a few days later with live data streaming test equipment like what was used in the AURA tests in May.

If the tests still positive and convincing, we will try in earnest to work out a deal to allow us to work with the technology in cooperation with Suhas. Such a deal could take several forms, but most will require some form of bridge financing to help make them happen. Towards that end, MFMP held an on-air hangout that was recorded on youtube. In the hangout, Bob Greenyer, who has been the MFMP contact with Suhas, explained the situation and our need to gauge the interest and capability of the crowd to help make a deal happen if we can come to an agreement.

Some of the potential deals discussed or suggested by viewers include:

Raising $320K in donations to buy the assets, including the real estate. Then we would sell the real estate and pay back the donors within 90 days. This would require appraisals, good local lawyer services in Mumbai, and solid agreement between all the players. Then the assets would be available for research in a different lab.

We could arrange a license or split the technology purchase with the other company. This would not recover the capital till we made copies of the reactor for sale to research institutions.

The technology is not patented, so we could wait for Suhas to finish his obligations, or split his time with the company buying his technology before we work with him. Replicate the reactor on our own – we are very reticent to take this path as it is likely to require a huge amount of research and funds to catch up.

There may be other options that supporters will come up with, too. Most of this will have to be dealt with in person after we find out if the reactor performs as claimed. To help be ready for that discussion, MFMP has put together a survey at https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ECCO-Bridge for potential supporters (or detractors) to fill out. If the support is strong, we can go into any dealmaking with more flexibility to help us secure this technology to be developed openly.

The long term vision is to kickstart the LENR industry. Once a valid LENR technology has been publicly and openly tested like this, we envision creating many copies of the device and distributing them to research institutions around the world for subsequent validation and further research into the phenomenon.

The research agreements would include ongoing protections on the openness of the science. The end result would be a large mass of open knowledge of the underlying physics and at least a few embodiments that would be available for use in thousands of new products.

Written by Ryan Hunt

  • I really hope that you guys can work something out. This sounds promising.

    Is this thing really a “free energy” machine? Can it run indefinitely?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Never afraid of trying. Not good with not knowing or suffering the false hope of an illusion.

  • Max Nozin

    It may not be too late to cancel the trip and spend money saved on Egely test.
    After so many years of the pursuit for the tech, suddenly a rush for two weeks deadline and 10 fold raise in stake. For what? To keep the little known guy doing what he is doing the best apparently – burning money with little return.
    I like the words ‘relatively open’. I guess that is the reason why mfmp has to go there instead of testing the device it their lab.
    Mfmp should get more picky about who they work with and do it on their terms from the beginning.

    • Bob Greenyer

      There are many that have burnt money on energy investments. Such as Solyndra that burnt over half a billion of taxpayers money.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra

      At least the money that Suhas burnt was his own and he already has a deal to pay and exceed the liabilities.

      The forward team, myself and Dr. Egely, are only there for 6 nights to minimise expense. We will know if it is worth shifting focus soon enough.

      • Karl Venter

        Hi Bob
        When are you going to visit/test ?

        • artefact

          Next week as far as I know.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Dr. Egely and I will be ‘in station’ as they say in India, Monday. Contingent on successful preliminary testing, Ryan will join Wed +.

  • Adam Lepczak

    Ill be more than happy to contribute if that frog will sing in public.
    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QuHA3p1M_Ns/maxresdefault.jpg

    • Bob Greenyer

      Let’s see if it can!

      • Adam Lepczak

        If the tests show clear LENR and a promise of further refinement – I can pitch in at least $100.00 toward the tech and possibly more (up to $1000.00). Such tech will be worth more than stupid bitcoins. We could actually “make” our crypto currency – that based on Energy being generated by the reactors. All other crypts are base on nothing – even us dollar is not tied to gold anymore. But a crypto-currency backed by the energy generated could be an interesting way for the future.

        • Bob Greenyer

          An interesting consideration

    • If the frog sings in public, who owns it?

  • Bob Greenyer

    Posted in other blog.

    We have pledges of $28,000 in the first 12 hours, nearly 10% of the goal, several others have said they could either put up more bridge financing or put up an amount contingent on either more clarity or some encouraging initial data.

    Also, important we have 5 people put their names forward for purchasing and testing prototype research reactors and yet more putting their name forward for a final product should it come to that.

    https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ECCO-Bridge

    I have arranged a meeting for Tuesday evening with a person I have known for around a decade that lives in Mumbai and has experience in real estate and Indian contract law.

  • sam

    Hi Bob
    You should forget about the crowd.
    You and Suhas should be more aggressive and start thinking how
    to make lots of money from the technology.
    Regards
    Sam

    • Bob Greenyer

      What technology? We know it has been verified to clean rods, bars, sheets and pipe. It appears that elements come out of it (some precious) that were not there before – but is that repeatable and useful?

      Without IP protection, there are not many options available, moreover, all other approaches have been tried before and failed. If a traditional risk taking funder, finds out you have something but no protection, they’ll rather spend on a team they control than pay for all the work done. It is a very poor move often, since there is always nuances that the original discoverer doesn’t realise are important. Working with the crowd to make things open is a very good route to see delivery – if not from Suhas, but from someone that can stand on the foundation he would leave behind.

      Suhas wants to make and deliver, as he has done in the past, not argue about if something works or not – it either does or it doesn’t and time will tell. He recognises that his work is based on that of others combined with his own skills.

      He is a man of honour, that is why he would not want to have his character attacked by the notion of bankruptcy – especially if, as he has shown, he has the wherewithal to not allow that to happen. The current deal leaves a bad taste in his mouth because, as it stands, it prevents the tech from being open – but no deal means he has to stop work, permanently. Full respect to him for finding a way forward.

      Given the luxury of plenty of time and verified data, all kinds of options that balanced commitments and philosophy could be considered, but here you have a straight up situation where a bank wants to call in a debt and a solution has to be found. This is the reality – so what can be done?

      • sam

        What technology?LENR.
        If your your plan works fine.
        But please consider other options like Soft bank.
        Don’t let others steal Suhas
        technology and make a fortune.
        Suhas and you and your
        Lawyer and Doctor friend would make a good team to make a
        Presentation to a bank if your
        tests are positive.
        What happens you make an offer can the other people increase there offer?

  • Bob Greenyer

    Thanks

    There will be a lot of interest IF it shows promise. I certainly don’t want to put my neck on the line based on a potential illusion.

    But as they say, if you are going to panic, panic first. To that end we are getting contingent offers from industry and academia already, and that is a wise play on their part. Just like we said we would and should work/supply first with those that offer / help / pledge first.

    My father always used to say “a volunteer is worth 10 forced men”

  • Bob Greenyer
    • gdaigle

      Respectfully, he should move that cutoff valve higher in the pipe to avoid parboiling his hand if it ever needed to be shut off while running (not that the resultant buildup of steam pressure would be desired either).

      • Bob Greenyer

        It is not even there now.

        in later videos you can see on our you tube channel, he has a 6mm ID nipple which will allow the steam to pipe straight into our heat exchanger.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I can’t imagine who you are referring to 😉

    No one said it would be a walk in the park. What you are seeing, real-time is, without conspiracy, how things play out. Is it the system or the players that make it happen? Capitalism is the best system we have found, except where capitalism gets inconveniently in the way of other capitalism. This is supposed to be where democracy steps in and sets capitalism straight for the common good (that doesn’t mean that you need to operate under communism to take the best path). Where a system is captured by certain capitalistic players, such that the ‘democracy’ cannot seek the best path, we end up with corporatism, that is where many societies are being herded, even as they believe otherwise

    Whatever the reason for the situation, we are where we are and we have to recognise what the reality is in order to have a chance of addressing it or working within it.

    Do I really want to go and demonstrate another null result, no, but I will not let a lack of understanding, fear or ridicule prevent me from trying – Dr. Egely has been in the same situation as Suhas as have I, this can often be the case with people that are driven to employ and make and shake things up – dead ends and failed adventure are all part of the journey.

    • Josh G

      “What you are seeing, real-time is, without conspiracy, how things play out.”

      How can you be so sure his bank going bankrupt just as you were gearing up for this test is just a coincidence? Smells fishy to me…

      • Bob Greenyer

        His bank did not go bankrupt. He wanted to focus on the research and so wound up his previous company. He had never done this before – and so didn’t expect the bank to come asking for the full face value of the outstanding loan. He had decided to wind up before I met him, after I met him, the bank cam knocking. This is why the test was initially delayed so he could have time to sort the problem. Last Friday was the last time to try and find a resolution with the bank – they were not agreeable, so Suhas had to put his dealmaking into top gear and has secured a solution that is less than perfect, but he keep his dignity.

        Last Friday we were both tasked with finding a solution, but he got there first and I don’t blame him, since, as my father would say, “a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush”. His solution was revealed on Wednesday to me, and here we are fighting to keep things open.

        • Josh G

          Thanks, Bob. However, my point stands: how can you be so sure that the bank unexpectedly calling in the loan is just a coincidence?

          • Bob Greenyer

            We can’t

  • Bob Greenyer

    Me too, I have other things I could be doing!

  • Bob Greenyer

    Not a bad Idea after we know there is something worth considering – once verified, we need to ensure that the tech is kept open for starters.

  • George Snoga

    There is one other possibility. Communicate with the proposed purchaser for a license for the tech.That might be much cheaper, especially is it is limited to a non India license.

    • Bob Greenyer

      The company is Singaporean. But it is one of the less desirable options.

    • Mats002

      I vote for Open Source LENR!

      • Mats002

        George Hants: what is your stand on this?

  • Bob Greenyer

    If it works, it is either releasing what is called nuclear binding level energy alone, or it is tapping into ‘the very wheelwork or nature’ [Tesla] and extracting a small amount of the energy available ‘at any point in the universe’ [Tesla].

    This is the same energy from which all matter came from at the time of the big bang.

    No energy is being created or destroyed, it is being accessed, like opening the gates on a dam.

    • Fibber McGourlic

      No. If it really worked–and is positively shown to produce a significant, measureable excess of pollution-free and ultimately cheap energy, time would stand still while the whole world flung trillions of cash and noble prizes at the inventor. This hurried call for money doesn’t equate. Too bad. I hoped there might be something to it.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I have faced time of plenty in my business life, and I have faced similar do or die situations financially. I understand what goes on in these situations from personal experience, so I have a different perspective. In the end – I care if it works or not.

        • Mats002

          +1

  • Bob Greenyer

    most likely – I am not sure Suhas would have pushed for it to be lumped together.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Not a bad option – but it is not their organisations business, will they want to do that? Worth asking.

  • Frank Acland

    I think the most important consideration here is whether the tech works as Suhas claims. If the MFMP can confirm that, before outsiders can make an informed decision about whether to assist with funding, I think it will be important to verify that Suhas is fully open — i.e. complete instructions are provided on how to produce the claimed LENR reaction.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Yes – very good point Frank

      • Gerard McEk

        I do hope that the ‘price’ doesn’t go up once proven it works….
        Maybe also check Suhas story and if this hypothecate exists beforehand.
        You can read here that I am cautious and I believe you should be too. I am having a bad feeling here, Bob.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Suhas has said on record that he wanted to make it open to the world.

          Of course the value of the technology would go up if proven, that was always going to be the case whatever the background situation or current status of the claimant.

          Suhas, if he has what he claims, is, in his words at the end of his life, what good would it do him? As my father always said, no point being the richest man in the graveyard. Suhas is a man of honour and it is a very important thing in India, as he said, whatever happens he will still deliver the pipe cleaning solution.

          He has a real chance of leaving a lasting legacy, the ultimate badge of honour.

          Worst case scenario, it does not work, Suhas is sorted as he has a buyer for the tech to clean pipes.

          However, if it does deliver and is demonstrated to – then others are not going to stand idly by and go ‘well that’s interesting’.

          I have seen documents from the bank explaining the demands, many weeks ago. Suhas thought he was man enough to solve it and he has found a solution to his big problem, but that presents a challenge for his wider aspirations.

          It is not perfect, we have to see what can be done.

    • Mats002

      AND that Suhas himself will do a competence transfer to the community – devils is in the details and we have learned hard that IF CF/LENR works it is NOT easy to replicate.

      We need Suhas active particication (was that a correct spelling?).

  • Bob Greenyer

    ‘Strange Radiation’ found?

    More features discovered on scan of radiographic negative – not so clear as initial ones. Much more scanning needed as there could be many – will have to wait. One attached. Another and 16bit tif source on blog. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c015bcb0a468110db5cc85e78f95a234567a17edfb3ad21513fd47e78e5b1569.jpg

    https://steemit.com/photography/@mfmp/ecco-radiographic-plate-developing-and-feature-identification

  • SD

    The whole idea of buying Suhas’ assets doesn’t sound good.

    First, the whole ”I need $320k within the next few weeks or the technology disappears forever” story sounds like a classic marketing technique. Maybe we should have a countdown timer to this page?

    The whole story sounds fishy. Why does Suhas have to sell his entire assets? Why can’t you keep the necessary stuff to run the device or just buy them again separately?

    MFMP isn’t in the business of flipping real estate or bailing out struggling companies. This is a very risky venture and IMO outside the scope

    You are being forced to make decisions out of fear. That can’t be good.

    There is the potential that MFMP and its donors are being deceived. And if not, the whole thing still sounds risky and unnecessary.

    Even if you have a positive test result, it might take months/years to confirm the result; the whole timeline to make a deal to “save” the technology is way too short.

    As an MFMP donor, I won’t be participating in this fundraising, but will continue to encourage the MFMP activities that stay within the scope of the project:

    “The Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project is a group dedicated to researching Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (often referred to as LENR) while sharing all procedures, data, and results openly online. “

    • Bob Greenyer

      It is a valid opinion.

      The video explained that the assets in the facility are hypothecated along with the facility, unless a solution was found, the whole lot could be locked up and then it might get really messy.

      Note, we were going to test anyhow and Suhas already has the immediate issue sorted with an aspect of the technology that does the required job.

  • Bob Greenyer

    All pledges are obviously contingent on data, more data, due diligence, legal and a vote, that being said and with varying degrees of just concern, in less than one day the community so far has said they can find

    $112,000

    – which is over a 1/3rd of what is needed to make this happen. Respect.

    Whatever happens, we will go to do the testing next week and see where fate takes us.

  • Bob Greenyer

    After a positive and repeated test, we always wanted to be able to disseminate the test for others to conduct – there is just a small potential hurdle in this case if it proves to work. Facts are facts until the facts change.

  • Mats002

    Under which flag should this entity be? The United Nations? We are not there yet.

  • Bob Greenyer

    In transet, but at 170,000 pledged, we are over half way to at least having an option on the table if the tests prove positive.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Nothing is worth anything is Suhas doesn’t play.

    The facts are at the moment, it very well may not test positive and we should be ready for that.

  • Bob Greenyer

    $277,000 pledged so far.

    Way to go everyone.

    Let’s see if we can test ECCO and if it delivers.

  • Mats002

    Or go directly to the bank and negotiate to get extra time for Suhas. Better to do a proper job than in a rush – quality first!

  • Bob Greenyer

    It may be an option, one of many.

  • This monetary set of issues seems pretty far afield from MFMP’s original stated goals and approach. If it works, everyone will be happy and gladly overlook the discrepancies. If it doesn’t work, a bunch of people will be saying “I told you so”.

    I honestly think that MFMP would be better served by raising its own money for its own LENR pursuits, so that you’re basically asking us to help you buy lab equipment. The fact that so much money has been raised so quickly is a sign that there is pent up support for open science LENR efforts.

    Even if the lab equipment generates null results, it’s still valuable information being generated. But MFMP owning real estate? There’s 10 things that can go wrong for every 1 thing that can go right.

    • Ace

      Agree w Kevmo. This is a terrible idea and the amount of money, location in India and timing are very suspicious. India is rated as one of the most corrupt large countries in the world by the Transparency Index. Of course, the financial angle means that pressure to create good results will be high.

      It’s sad to see MFMP devolve into something like PESN – Sterling used to fly all around the world for similar harebrained schemes.

      • Bob Greenyer

        The results will be the results. If at all possible they will be verified by further testing.

        What are your alternative suggestions?

        • My alternative suggestion is to post gofundme campaigns for various equipment needed, especially for following up on that 4 year old gamma ray finding by Mathieu and JP Biberian.

          • Bob Greenyer

            This is an option. Though, I am not sure where to get a Celani wire without Celani, as he has moved on from that method.

          • Frank Acland

            Hi Bob, what’s the latest news from your end?

          • Bob Greenyer

            see above

          • Frank Acland

            Thanks Bob, I have made a new thread for it

          • I saw somewhere that he is developing a new, improved version that no doubt “solves” that “problem” of gamma emissions at the outset.

        • David_Kaiser_39

          Be clear with your position, secure your position. First the results, then the money. If they try to convince you that it is not possible (time, mother got sick etc.)
          , you will already know why – because there is nothing. If they start to make a drama you know why – because there is nothing. But its better to go through this now then having the damage afterwards. In more than 90% of the cases there will be nothing. Be mentally prepared for it.

          BTW – if the tests are positive, money will be no problem. You know that. Everyone trusts you, Bob, everyone knows you. Don’t worry about that.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Thanks David, means a lot. Suhas is fighting along side us.

      • David_Kaiser_39

        I have been dealing with Indians for some years in the construction business. Most of them are corrupt. Most of the humans are. The difference is, it is an open secret for Indians and they even talk about it openly, without shame. If you belong to their circle, you are safe, if not, they will eat you for breakfast – without any bad feelings. You will not know what they are doing to you unless it is too late and the damage is done. They are very, very clever; don’t underestimate them, even if they seem not so due to their bad english. So yes, better be careful with these people as they have a particular understanding of being honest. They will talk with you till they got your money. After that, they will disappear and will not bother at all if they hurt you. It’s very normal for them.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I understand it well.

  • Stephen Taylor

    The big question staring us in the face is simply this; does lenr exist? Does Suhas have a working reactor? Does Rossi? Does Holmlid? Does Mills?
    This coming week looms large. More and more the smoke fades and there is no sign of fire…???

    • Bob Greenyer

      Better to know – whatever the truth may be.

  • Bob Greenyer

    No money has changed hands – it is pledged, it allows an option to be considered should the tech be verified. Just as important is all the people who have put their name forward to purchase research reactors.

    Nothing flys without data though.

  • Bob Greenyer

    This bundle of things was packed in a bag, that just happened to make it all the way to Mumbai, doesn’t look suspicious at all!

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c7ec3939fc3e2362f75daf384793580124961d45a1bd5a82b57d150a7964718f.jpg

    • Omega Z

      Ha…
      Let us know when the release you from Gitmo…

      • Bob Greenyer

        Might be better than Indian incarceration

    • sam

      Good to hear that bag made it to Mumbai.Good luck on testing Bob.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Thanks

    • Dods

      Don’t got standing on any toilets Bob or you might invent something else with all that kit. 🙂

      • Bob Greenyer

        haha – thanks for the tip!

  • David Linebarger

    Can someone please link for me to an article or two on all the benefits to society if LENR/Cold Fusion is real? The more extensive the better. Thanks.

    • Bob Greenyer

      No emissions.
      Remediates nuclear waste.
      Highly compact and long run times without refuelling
      replace all other forms of energy potentially
      etc.

  • Bob Greenyer

    ECCO day one – stupidity rules the world

    https://soundcloud.com/user-554048314/ecco-d01

    • Hello Bob,

      A few thoughts:

      1) Can you get the British Embassy/Consul involved? Maybe a hint of higher authority is what this guy needs.

      2) What’s the name of this banking bureaucrat? Can we launch a twitter storm mentioning his name and/or the bank’s name?

      3) Could you just buy a stainless steel drill and just drill out those screws holding the bolt – they look like the weak link (did I say that??).

      • and/or maybe:
        4) Tell the story to a local crusading media person with at least some technical understanding.

        • Bob Greenyer

          We are pursuing legal avenues – I was a witness to similar thing in past and it turned out the locking party had broken the law – We found a lawyer today and they seemed to agree and suggested around 7 approaches to deal with this and get us in. It is now in Suhas court to choose to move forward.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Seeing as the US is 25% of the worlds energy consumption and largely obeys the rule of law (at least the man on the street) it is not such a bad option.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Hmm, yes, and who is Samec? Suhas seemed disturbed by the comment.

  • Thomas Baccei

    My reasonable comments and suggestions are being censored out of this blog. I’d like to know why!

    • Bob Greenyer

      I think I got them Thomas, Also, you can comment directly. Some good ideas thanks.

    • Frank Acland

      Check this link, Thomas, as these are all your published comments that I can see. I don’t see any that have been deleted or spammed: https://disqus.com/by/thomasbaccei/

  • Bob Greenyer

    And if the other companies had not failed, the tax payer would be up $810million. Given the huge deficit and debt all money is important.

    VCs work on this basis make 100x on 1 in 10 investments. Still – you have lost on the ones that lost.