Steven Greer: Rossi’s Going about Things All Wrong

Thanks to Bob Greenyer for sharing a link to a recent video which contains an audio recording of a seminar by Steven Greer, the founder of the Disclosure Project, which attempts to make public surpressed information about such subjects as UFOs, and advanced technologies (e.g. medical, propulsion, energy) that he believes should be released for the benefit of humanity.

Below is a transcription of part of his talk which deals with Andrea Rossi and the E-Cat — which is found at the 2:32 mark in the video below.

This portion is Steven Greer responding to a question about zero point energy. He was asked if the genie was now out the bottle, if anyone was now close.

“Yes, they can contain them,  and yes there are people close, in fact there are people who have them. Let me give you one example. We believe …  there’s a fellow name Rossi, in Italy, who has a device that generates apparently overunity excess energy and heat, although no one knows the mechanism and action. He’s keeping it a trade secret. Very big, and probably fatal, fatal error.

“The people I’ve met with who’ve developed these systems have all either taken it to their graves, or had them confiscated before they can get them out the public significantly because of some central strategic errors that have to do with the idea that they are going to be able to handle that technology like you would a new app, or a new Silicon Valley computer system.

“When you’re dealing with something like this, it has to be done completely openly, open source, and you have to have millions of people know what’s happening in real time. Stan Myer took his knowledge to the grave. If you look at the workshop I did about a year ago here, there have been literally hundreds, or maybe thousands of people who have discovered this same effect, and they’ve all made the same set of predictable errors base on them handling the technology as if it were a conventional technology, when it is not. 

“And so I would say, yes, there are people out there who are working on it, some who I believe have. I have a friend at Stanford University who knows a man at the National Security Agency who confided that they are tracking what Rossi is doing very carefully, which indicates to me that where there’s smoke, there’s fire. If Rossi’s listening: heads up.

“But tactically and strategically he’s handling it in a way that guarantees failure. Because by keeping it tightly held, coveting, trying to keep it secret, overly concerned with monetizing the technology, instead of getting it out, he is going to step into every booby trap that has been set out there, and the chances that it will make its way out to the public is infinitesimally small, and that’s not just true of Rossi’s technology, but of every single person who has that same idea.”

  • Alan DeAngelis

    On the other hand, Steven Greer at 18:20 min.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuUDbt0oj20

    • Buck

      “Honey Trap” . . . so it is suggested that Greer is selling “fear” as a means to bait a “honey trap”.

      • Omega Z

        That’s a distinct possibility. Government entities have been known to be planted in varies positions of organizations with the intent to either stay 1 step ahead of developments or to discredit things they don’t want accepted by the public at large.

        • Buck

          This sort of assessment simply raises the question of what is the prudent step for Rossi: follow his existing path of development and commercialization or the “donate it to the world” path.

          Though it will offend some, I think his current path is the soundest given the inherently destabilizing effect of LENR technology upon the different groups of extremely vested interests across the globe, both private and public entities.

          His challenge is to find the resource-rich honest players eager to support the introduction . . . not such an easy proposition as the multi-year drama with IH proved.

          • Omega Z

            I agree with you. Rossi should continue his own path. People who want it open sourced either have their own interests in mind or do not realize that it would delay the entire field.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Andrew Johnson says around 37:40 that these effects [excess energy etc.] come out at high frequencies, starting around 20,000 Hz.

      Suhas Ralkars frequencies

      Fuel processor, 19.46kHz
      Foil Maker, 300kHz
      ECCO, 1MHz

  • Ted Rygas

    Indeed, Rossi’s approach is wrong. Once he submitted the invention to the patent office, he should make the details fully open to the public. His priority and the monetization would be protected and he would avoid taking the technology to his grave, due to an accident, suicide, heart attack or other natural causes like that. However, he keeps the essential details hidden, which does not make too much sense. Replicators would not take his priority away, the replicators would need a license from Rossi and he would collect the royalties. This would be much more than the 100 million that he was fighting for. Some estimates are that about 20 (per year) inventors like Rossi, are taking their inventions to their graves due to natural causes.

    • Gerard McEk

      Maybe the technology is so simple that based on a recipe on the Internet nearly everyone can make it. Rossi thinks that by mass-production and automation he may be able to produce it competitively. That points also into this simpel technology direction. Rossi needs this mass production to keep his strategic advantage and therefore he keeps his secrets until that has happend. That’s my analysis of the situation.

      • Bob Greenyer

        If he has defined his patent correctly – i.e. best embodiment – then in all the markets he could defend the patent he could claim royalties.

        VHS and ARM (hardware) showed the way for hardware on a cheap/affordable licensing model. Android (software) showed the way for software.

        There are many minds out there that could deliver this more effectively than any one individual or group.

        The only reason I see for not fully spilling the beans, is that if you did – it opens up WAY MORE than just energy. This is why, in my opinion, BLP and Leonardo want to keep things obfuscated or under license. I actually don’t blame them – this is new (eternal) physics and it is too much for most to come to terms with.

        • georgehants

          Bob, do so hope you are correct and that “new (eternal) physics” is a reality.
          Love that term, never seen it before.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I hadn’t either

        • Gerard McEk

          I agree Bob, that may be a plausable answer as well, thanks for that. I do hope though that this technology will not lead to that. I think people will not be able to control this dangerous direction yet (if ever).
          From commercial perspective I do not see AR agreeing with that vision publicly.

      • It’s a lot like the Wright brothers. There will very shortly be people who can do what Rossi does much better than Rossi, just like what happened to the Wrights. So he wants to be in control of the technology for as long as he can.

  • Chapman

    Rossi, and LENR in general, have as much to do with ZPE as a hot air balloon has to do with AntiGravity!!!

    This is the nonsense that keeps LENR viewed as a fringe science issue.

    LENR consumes a fuel, releases the fuels bound energy to a useful thermal form, and leaves behind a residual ash. It is no more “Free Energy” than a fireplace in your den!

    This kind of hype is an insult to anyone with an ounce of logic, or any kind of critical thought.

    The only ZERO POINT ENERGY being observed is the absolute WASTED ENERGY of folks going on ABOUT zpe… Let me guess, ZPE is REAL, and being used by extraterrestrial YETI flying around in their interdimensional UFO’s, Right??? And the obvious evidence of their existence is the Crop Circles their FTL craft leave in wheat fields…

    • R101

      Wrong. UFO’s are apparently powered by Element 115 (Well that’s what Bob Lazar told us about 20 years before man was even able to create it). 🙂

      • But element 115 didn’t even come close to the properties that Bob Lazar claimed.

        • Omega Z

          If I recall, it did appear to have the properties that Bob Lazar claimed. However, until they can find a way to contain it, it is not absolute. They have similar issues with anti-matter. They can only contain it for short periods. Last I heard about 1 year at most.

          • From RationalWiki

            Element 115[edit]
            See the main article on this topic: Moscovium
            Long before Moscovium was created and assigned the number 115 on the periodic table of elements, Lazar claimed it was capable of powering anti-gravity engines. Some people feel this vindicates Lazar (and proves the rest of his kooky claims). However, for Bob Lazar to be right, virtually all of modern atomic physics would need to be wrong:

            “”Unfortunately, the very method of his apparent vindication – that element 115 had finally been created – directly contradicts a key claim that Bob Lazar made: Ununpentium cannot be synthesized in a lab. That it must be found in naturally occurring deposits that can only be made in high-mass star systems.[5]

          • Omega Z

            It’s not my intent to vindicate Lazar. However, I think in time we will learn that much we consider settled science will be over turned or substantially modified if only in details. We can see some of this taking place now.

    • I agree, but I do think the guvmint moved on Electrogravitics in the 1950’s, making the entire field classified. Times were different then, because of the fear of communism and a nuclear war.

      I also think Flying Saucers were simply aerodynamic boundary layer control experiments, started in the 1920’s and quickly advanced by Germany at the end of WWII. Guess who won that war? 2 years later, those things were flying around, crashing. There’s no way an extraterrestrial organization is going to cross hundreds of light years only to crash here on earth.

      https://www.amazon.com/Intercept-UFO-Renato-Vesco/dp/B0006WI572/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1502689879&sr=8-2&keywords=intercept+ufo+renato+vesco

      • Bob Greenyer

        Just as Nature shows us Charge Clusters that can transmute elements and turn metal to jelly in the form of Ball Lightening – it shows us electrogravitics in tornados

        https://youtu.be/6jLB4Mz4V10

        https://youtu.be/WABqwKjQM_c?t=1m50s

        These things are ‘jently’ raised rotated and lowered. Those trailers are nearly 5.5 tonnes empty. Whilst one may disagree with Steven Greer’s assertion that man has achieved this effect nature does not care for opinions, it just does what it does, given the right circumstances.

    • Bob Greenyer

      In the end, it does not matter where the energy comes from, just that we can safely access and control it without harmful emissions. As someone said on this forum recently the Chinese used gunpowder for a very long time before they understood how it worked.

      • Chapman

        “As someone said on this forum recently the Chinese used gunpowder for a very long time before they understood how it worked.”

        Wow… That is GENIUS!!! Who said THAT??? That guy sounds pretty smart…

    • georgehants

      Morning Chapman, I can say that I have never read a better summing-up of the completely unscientific, illogical mind at work.
      There are so many errors in your comment and you are clearly so unable to see reality in a scientific way there would be absolutely no point in discussing actual logic etc. with you.

      • Chapman

        ‘A mind is like a trash compactor. Garbage in, Garbage out’
        Chapman

        • georgehants

          Chapman, luckily we all have the capability to think for ourselves and not become a part of that “garbage” unfortunately most do not and just keep repeating the same “garbage” over and over with out a thought of logic, common-sense etc.

          • Chapman

            Love you George, but you do not “THINK”. You “DREAM”. You have ideas, but refuse to analyse their validity, or hold them up to any logical inspection.

            You believe what you WANT to believe, and do not allow intellect to get in your way. You are a “True Believer”. OK. I get that. But do not confuse THAT with being a “Deep Thinker”. They are two completely opposite concepts.

            This is NOT an insult! This is what makes the world go ’round. We all have our niche in life, our rolls to play, and something valid to contribute. More power to you! But I simply have more reliance on LOGIC than FAITH. To each his own.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I agree that is true for much creativity with fixed deadlines, however, I like to think that the brain, and moreover the collective consciousness is more like an iterative filter… sure, trash can go in, but it only stays there as long as it makes sense and it only stays in the collective consciousness as long as it is *PERCEIVED* to be true.

          “The truth will out’ eventually. Nature only works and exists and acts in the way it can – just because one doesn’t know what it can do, doesn’t mean it can’t do it.

          Consideration of garbage does not mean that garbage will stick in the sum of thought.

          • Chapman

            Imagination is a net that we cast upon the waters to pull in whatever is there to be considered. But what is COLLECTED must then be sorted and separated, setting aside that which is useless, and bringing on board that which is of value. Critical Thinking is the filter that MUST be applied to separate the good from the bad. Without this discernment, you are just filling your hold with useless weeds and spinefish and THINKING you have a wonderful bounty.

            People tout having an open mind as a virtue. I disagree. Cognition, and I mean REAL thinking, rather than just daydreaming, is a discipline. It is not just a sunday afternoon sitting back and letting random thoughts float through your head. It is an act of precision. Imagination is not THINKING. It is simply the act of collecting concepts to think about. But those concepts must be properly screened, and silliness must be jettisoned BEFORE it fouls up the actual LOGIC SYSTEM. These “open minded” people fool themselves by focussing on what is possible as if THAT were the end of analysis. But they fail to follow through and evaluate what is probable, which is why they end up holding on to nonsense, utterly convinced they have a broader scope of understanding. No. They are just overloaded with clutter. TOO much clutter to get to the real facts, which they ALSO have, but simply can not focus on.

            As any parent knows, and tries to teach their young children, the best way to avoid having to spend a day cleaning your room is to NOT make a mess in the first place. Keep things tidy, and you will be ready for whatever spontaneous opportunity comes along. But if you are lazy, or slipping into “hoarder” territory and letting your space become cluttered and confused, then you will not be able to find WHAT you need WHEN you need it, and will have to take time out later just to fix what you have willingly allowed to become a disaster area.

            Thus it is with the mind.

            There is a very serious problem with folks who “believe” in UFO’s. You might say that there is a reasonable possibility that extraterrestrial life exists. You may contemplate the potential chance of them having decided to come and visit this rock. But to take a set of abstract potentials, and extend those to a decision to BELIEVE that it is true is an act of will, not of intellect. It is a choice to embrace the possibility, and run with it as if it were a reality. This is delusional.

            Now, I am not picking on the UFO crowd, I am merely using THAT mental trap as an example of how otherwise capable minds fall into bad habits, and yet CONVINCE themselves that they are “great thinkers” because they have the much touted “open mind”.

            I say Balderdash!!! With a capital “B”!

            An open net catches fish, true, but having an open mind just let’s your brains fall out…

          • Frank Acland

            This is not a site to focus on UFO phenomena, but when it comes to UFOs, I know for some people (including close friends of mine) it’s not a matter of belief, it’s a matter of personal experience and witness. Some people then try to figure out what it is they have seen — it’s not surprising to me that there’s a lot of interest.

          • HS61AF91

            Do you think, accumulating various facts and figures in ones mind can lead to sudden perception of something new? Like correctly analyzing a situation with less than sufficient facts to know how you arrived at the conclusion. The conclusion then turns out to be repetitive and true? That is what I believe is a talent that pushes entrenched academia into frenzies of incredulity.

          • Chapman

            SO TRUE!!!

            We scan through so many things. Some we immediately elevate as demonstrably true, and salient, and worth the effort. Some we immediately see as hokum, or extending from established hokum we have already discounted. But then there is the mass of things we have no immediate thoughts or opinions about, and these things just float in the back of the mind. They accumulate, and group together, and then one day WE encounter ONE new fact, or ONE simple insight, and all these “floaters” just seem to converge of their own will, and there is a rush of mental activity as an entire concept just precipitates out of the mental ether.

            It is the moment that the “light bulb” clicks on over our heads. But it is not spontaneous genius, so much as the rapid self-assembly of all those disjointed facts that we had collected. But none of this CAN happen if one does not have a voracious appetite for facts and ideas in the first place.

            I truly LOVE the way the human mind works. And even looking at how it malfunctions is fascinating. I make many observations regarding mental health, but they are, for the most part, simply observations rather than an attempt to insult. Brains work a certain way, and recognizing what one’s mind is doing is a good place to start when looking to have it “do” better. And like any other part of the body, it needs to not only be well fed, but care must also be taken to regulate the QUALITY of what it is fed.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Insight, seeing the whole picture even with pieces of the puzzle missing, is what makes a real genius.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Kenneth Shoulders had a nice phrase for staying focused when considering all of the possibilities and implications of his discoveries… He said that he tried not to get ‘diffused’.

            Who decides what logic should be taught to a thinker to be later used for discrimination, your physics teacher that never knew the full maxwell equations? Your pastor? The bully at school?

            In my open mind, only repeatedly demonstrated phenomena can be considered believable. I believe something when I have witnessed it with my own eyes. That being said, I can hypothesis based on the sum total of experience what might be probable – but that will not make it so, only consistent data matters.

            Many people responding to the actual relevant comments that Steven Greer has made regarding Rossi in this article by Frank have chosen to focus on other aspects of the messengers activities – this is interesting, but even effective soldiers can nurture well rounded children.

          • Chapman

            Beautifully said! That is a very well reasoned stance.

            As always, it is a pleasure talking with you. 🙂

    • Pixel Cube

      Anything that consumes fuel, regardless of how much of an excess is produced, isn’t really “free”. That one is a valid point.

      • Bob Greenyer

        New Fire “Free Energy’ could be considered as getting more pollution free energy from a source for the same $ spent than can normally be got from a conventional supplier (HCs, Sun sources, nuclear, Geo etc.), with no subsidy or covert embodied energy.

        If I get 8 times more units of heat from my hypothetical New Fire source for the same $ as I get from my current supplier, I have received 7 units of ‘Free Energy’ – it does not matter one jot to me where that pollution free yield comes from as long as it is safe.

        • roseland67

          I think you have just received 8 units of less expensive energy Bob.

          • Bob Greenyer

            As I said in my Copenhagen presentation, soon it would be seen as such and certainly by the next generation – “It would just be what you get for $1”, never the less, the environmental footprint of an ideal embodiment would be negligible and the continuous output far exceeding that which could be easily got from burning.

      • Chapman

        It goes deeper than that.

        When I move a conductor through a magnetic field to produce a current, I am not harvesting the magnetism and converting it to usable energy. I am simply using a static force to convert the energy I applied in the form of momentum into a discrete electron flow. The magnetism is never depleted, it is not converted, it is not a “source” of anything. It is just one element of the chain of leverage I am applying.

        When I place a generator in a dam, I am not converting GRAVITY into electricity, any more than I am harvesting energy held in the magnets. I am using those static forces to convert motion into electricity.

        ZPE is not a “WELL” of energy that we can tap, and extract an endless supply of “Free Energy” from.

        The issue I have is that it only takes ignoring ONE SIMPLE CONCEPT for a person to slide from cutting edge physics into pure Sci-FI. It only takes one lapse of reason to cause someone who is otherwise reasonable and intelligent to take off their thinking cap and don a tinfoil hat.

        The fact that REAL ADVANCED PHYSICS may LOOK like magic when poorly understood does NOT mean that there is no difference between the two, or that MAGIC is therefore as valid and reasonable as the physics.

        There is a huge difference between having an open mind and having a hole in your head. Some folks believe keeping an open mind means turning off all discernment and embracing every idea on an equal basis, without any filter, and without any critical thought. They seek to improve their minds by turning OFF all thinking. That is simply ridiculous.

        The closest thing I have seen to “free energy” is the spontaneous release of several gigawatts of outraged wailing and fist shaking every time I state that AGW is a fraud. If we could harness THAT we have really have something. I expend about 20 calories typing the statement, but it results in the release of enough hot air to melt a sizable chunk of one of the arctic glaciers those poor polar bears are clinging to. I would love to see someone calculate that COP. But all the other “free energy” blather I see is just fantasy nonsense, cleverly couched in physics terminology, but without any real underlying scientific validity. And yet I am accused of being a science denier! Because I believe in Science, with a capital “S”, rather than a bunch of delusional hokum…

    • Chapman, I think what Steven Greer said is up for interpretation. In the transcript Steven Greer moved away from the topic (ZPE) and he said:

      “We believe … there’s a fellow name Rossi, in Italy, who has a device that generates apparently overunity excess energy and heat, although no one knows the mechanism and action.”

      To me it is clear he is giving a politically correct answer (which is actually quite unusual for him) stating that they believe an anomaly is produced and it’s not really known why.

      I do not think that answer was an insult to logic, I think it was a VERY intelligent answer. The parallels you draw to crop circles and Yeti, from that specific statement, is a bit unnecessary.

      He was asked a question, pretended like he answered it, but actually very skillfully steered the conversation towards a direction he rather wanted to go towards. So, you loose sense of the sens moral of the answer. It’s about working openly, and disclosure.

      • Chapman

        You make a very reasonable observation. Good points.

        I will ponder them, and adjust my thinking accordingly.

        • I would like to eat your brain to gain your powers. (figuratively speaking)

          We all have “triggers” and I guess you just unintentionally gave away one of yours. A trigger is something that blocks the cognitive functions in our brain causing the signals in our neural network to loop in a closed pre-determined neural pathway, when that happens, we lose slightly our ability to think rational.

          The brain functions very much like a computer and at some point something affected you to cause your brain to relate the neural pattern of Yeti’s with the neural pattern of UFO’s. This phenomena is very related to that of a Phobia.

          Belief in UFO’s visiting earth and affecting our lives can be a very powerful belief, for some. We are not the first generations that believes in UFO’s, although we have created new words for it, it’s related to beliefs that have been around for thousands of years, so long it’s now deeply rooted, genetic.

          Because you are open to understand, you realise that UFO belief is just as harmless as the fear of Yeti, it won’t bother you any longer. Instead your mind now can wander more freely in different directions.

          For me, studying these UFO believers has taught me a lot.

          At some point I was much in contact by someone quite close to Steven Greer, he invited me to come and join them in the Nevada desert for some kind of gathering where you supposedly use telepathy to communicate with alien space ships. By sheer “want” you would be able to learn to make space ships reveal themselves on the night sky and you would be able to communicate with them. I suspect a great deal of drugs might be (?) consumed during these rituals, also it’s started by long sessions where the attendees are lead into a lucid state of mind.
          ( Basically they hallucinate)

          Steven Greer is a doctor, while he has very orthodox believes, he is not an “unintelligent” person. In fact I believe he is an master in psychology and to me it seems he has studied spiritualism and religious beliefs and then applied the psychology behind it to create some kind of new spiritual UFO religion.
          Is he aware that he is using psychology to induce hallucinations and strong beliefs in his followers, does he do it as part of a secret experiment or for profit, and has he allowed himself to actually believe in his own preaching? – I do simply not know, and maybe it does not matter.

          As for their beliefs, I think these people are perfectly harmless, in fact they program themselves with great values and as individuals they are really nice people who strive very hard to create a positive change to our world.

          It’s not always the most rational and best ideas that goes the furthest, instead it is the ideas communicated the most effective way. Delusional or intentionally, this guy is very charismatic and clearly has Yoda powers.

          One of the corner stones in their believes seems to be that there must be power sources allowing interplanetary space travel, it’s very important for them to prove these exist to justify their own beliefs – so one of their main goals resonates very well with the quest for many of those following research around alternative new energy technologies.

          While we all seem to agree that UFO-belief is mostly off-topic here it can be productive to remind ourselves that their movement thus far is vastly bigger and more influential than ours, they are in the military, in the white house, in many places.
          This surprised me a lot, a friend of mine who studied the UFO movement for years told me that UFO belief is very common especially by highly educated people in academia, according to him it is for example secretively widespread within MIT. (We all love forbidden fruit)

          Because UFO belief is partly genetic, we would never be able to suppress it in a 100 years, it’s a complete waste of time. Let’s just give them all a hug and focus on other things.

          In regards to “taking technology to your grave”, I do believe governments have raided some of the labs of these scientists, possible because they were on to something, possible because they were suspected of running scams.

          For so incredible many reason it makes perfect sense – if you do have something, share it.

          Is it true what Steven Greer said that NSA is following Rossi, hard to tell. I guess it comes down to how much faith we as individuals place in his words, also, due to the nature of organisations such as the NSA, very little of what they say can be trusted. (NSA is not exactly the poster-child of absolute truth and integrity. )

          If gov organisations “such as” NSA has been following Rossi, which many of us to believe, what are the implications of that?

          Lastly, in regards to being critical, I think Rossi supporters should pressure him hard to share whatever he has, as Steven Greer did.

    • Zephir

      /* Rossi, and LENR in general, have as much to do with ZPE as a hot air balloon has to do with AntiGravity! */

      Of course, at the case when E-Cat runs on nuclear energy, then there is no reason for to call it ZPE technology. But from certain perspective the overunity technologies utilizing the ZPE run on similar principle, like the LENR. The general assumption of dense aether model is, the “free energy” can be utilized only when it represents the latent energy of matter which it has like sorta oversaturated or overheated material in contact with its neighborhood.

      For example the LENR utilizes latent energy which the atom nuclei kept after its formation in supernovae. The ZPE just utilizes latent energy of surface of matter in contact with vacuum, whereas the LENR utilizes the same latent energy inside the atom nuclei. See for example Vallée Synergetic Generator – a simple device which generates beta rays and nuclear reactions, but it’s based on isomerisation of atom nuclei under NMR stimulation (their “shaking” magnetic field), i.e. no actual nuclear reaction runs there.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/Physics_AWT/comments/5ow3v7/vall%C3%A9e_synergetic_generator_a_simple_circuit

  • Zephir

    /* When you’re dealing with something like this, it has to be done completely openly, open source, and you have to have millions of people know what’s happening in real time. Stan Meyer took his knowledge to the grave */

    In dense aether model the destiny of breakthrough findings is similar like the destiny of dark matter around massive bodies, which represent mainstream. These objects are repelled each other with thick coat of dark matter, which represents disbelief and censorship of breakthrough findings based on time reversed physics which advances its time and which slows down their merging with mainstream.

    But this coat of dark matter censorship applies in both small distance scale, both large distance ones. Not only galaxies get repelled with dark mark matter, the black holes inside them bounce each other too.

    http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/hubble120113/s_h04_hs201323.jpg https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0402056

    This is analogy of dual censorship of breakthrough findings as practiced with both mainstream (represented with mainstream scientific media, government and proverbial “fossil fuel lobby”) – but also the inventors itself! It’s the same greediness, and in its very consequences both types of censorship have the same outcome. Nearly every breakthrough finding during last century has been less or more completely classified and as such hidden before attempts for replication by public.

  • Martin Lund

    So, this is a LENR site but many people here just can’t stop talking ZPE, UFOs, 9.11 etc. conspiracy theories… No wonder LENR is having a hard time being taken seriously. Please take this nonsense elsewhere.

    • georgehants

      Martin, you seem to have missed that since the first days of P&F Cold Fusion was branded as impossible nutty science.
      If Cold Fusion turns out to be genuine on investigation why would the same not be so for any other nutty science?
      It is only nutty scientists who brand anything unknown as nutty in the first place, when in Fact they do not have a clue.

      • Omega Z

        ZPE can’t be ruled out, but it is more fringe then LENR. It needs to stay fringe until someone comes up with more evidence. LENR has at least been proven to exist and been replicated.

        I do believe in ET’s and concede that they may even be observing us. If that makes me crazy, I’m in good company with Stephen Hawking among others. What is crazy is anyone who thinks they will land in central park and say, Here- Free technology. That will never happen. Any race capable of zooming around the Galaxy are smart enough to know that would be stupid. And some would say they could at least give us their medical knowledge. Technology intertwines. Thus it could be abused with negative results. Besides, Their medical technology would likely be totally useless for our physiology. Maybe even deadly to us.

        Before ET’s would ever make contact with World Governments or anyone here on earth, we must first go through a rite of passage. That being technologically advanced enough that we ourselves can start zooming through the Galaxy. Think Star Trek- First Contact. So at our primitive stage, ET’s might as well not exist.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Do we refuse to use AC power and call a unit of magnetism “Tesla” because the inventor believed in ETs?

          Tesla also created the first (in this era) atom smasher, x-rays (before they were later identified and named), transmutations and radio transmissions.

          Sometimes in life, one has to take the rough with the smooth, Rossi has been said to be a challenging person to engage with over extended periods – even actors can be hard to work with – it is the ‘magic’ these unbound minds bestow upon us that should be lauded – they should not be chastised for their considerations in their path to discovery.

          • US_Citizen71

            “No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.”
            ― Aristotle

        • georgehants

          Omega Z, I agree with all your Facts and disagree with any opinions.
          We have no knowledge of their capabilities or advanced science (should they exist) so the whole subject is open and no conclusions can be scientifically made.
          Good that you keep an open-mind on the basic subject just as I think we should keep an open-mind on Cold Fusion.

        • TOUSSAINT francois
          • Omega Z

            The only crash I give any credence to is the Roswell crash. Even that is not 100%.

            I side with Kevmo on this.
            “There’s no way an extraterrestrial organization is going to cross hundreds of light years only to crash here on earth.”

            Any ET capable of zooming around the galaxy would be advanced enough that we would only be a scientific curiosity. We have nothing otherwise they would be interested in. For observation purposes, they would not want to contaminate the subject. They definitely wouldn’t want to introduce technology(even by accident) to a species before it’s time(to naturally evolve) anything else could disastrous to us and them.

            Look to our own science. We are leaning to convert elements. By the time we develop advanced technology to zoom about the galaxies, we wont be looking for resources. We have all we need within our own solar system. If we need gold, we can transform 1 form of matter to another. We would in essence just be looking to spread our species to assure continuation of our species in the event of some catastrophe. If we encounter other species, we would only observe without interference. Unless of course they developed similar technology to roam.

          • TOUSSAINT francois

            I totaly agree with you, but there is so many credible witnesses, airline pilotes, police officers,and others that can’t be explained away.

          • UFOs are real, they’re just not extraterrestrial. They are a secret weapon based on 1920’s experiments in aerodynamics and boundary layer control.

          • TOUSSAINT francois

            Like the MHD version of the B2 bomber ?

          • MagnetoHydroDynamics on the B2 bomber? No. But there was an interesting supposition that the B2 bomber was enhanced by electrogravitics. It was put forth by Paul La Violette, the only patent examiner to ever get fired for “believing in” Cold Fusion.

            Is It Religious To Believe in Cold Fusion?
            http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and…/is_it_religious_to_believe_in_cold_fusion.html
            Aug 24, 2000 – Should Paul A. LaViolette get his job back? LaViolette last year lost his job at the U.S. Patent Office. … the Patent Office’s parent agency, LaViolette claimed that his firing constituted reprisal for his belief in cold fusion, and …

          • Pink Panther

            The gentleman in this video was certain the object didn’t just crash (can I dare say; due to bad “workalienship”) but due to damage caused after being fired upon.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I will explain how / why logically and based on LENR research in due course. But it is so surprisingly simple, I am amazed no one has deduced it before.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Martin, you did not address this when I last raised it.

      1. Steven E. Jones was a researcher on, and lead proponent of, “Muon Catalysed Fusion”
      2. “Muon Catalysed Fusion” is accepted as real by the “Scientific Mainstream”
      3. Steven E. Jones lead the public vote that humiliated and destroyed the careers of Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons (this is where my personal interest comes from)
      4. Steven E. Jones has been involved with leading a range of alternative herding organisations promoting conspiracy theories (actual ones) surrounding the events of which we shall not talk.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

      Do we now say that mainstream science should distance itself from “Muon Catalysed Fusion”? (I think there are those that would actually like that to happen, something I will expand on later).

      In addition.

      5. Rossi has reported propulsion, Hutchinson has demonstrated this as has Stoyan Sarg (plus it was demonstrated in the early part of last century), the latter specifically says it comes from the aether and is now invited as plenary speaker to major conferences, so acceptance of his understanding is growing. There is video testimony from a first responder saying he had to keep pulling his hat down and others being displaced during the events on the day we shall not name.

      6. Steven E. Jones is trying to destroy the career of Dr. Judy Wood.

      You are perfectly within your rights to refuse to look at the evidence. But these transparent side swipes are getting boring.

      • HS61AF91

        Also Nikola T. knew about energy in the aether. I am an admirer of Steven G. and believe he has experienced ET contact/education. Just the internet, (this forum), and a spread of knowledge is hard to suppress, as has been in the past. Believe the point of cover up is past, and the knowledge of how to attain independent free energy is just beginning.

        • Bob Greenyer

          There is a change occurring, however, it is easier than ever to ‘burn the books’. Piantelli, Sarg, Rossi, Focardi, Moray, Egely, Ohsawa, Fleischmann, Bockris – etc. they all learned from books… Might be wise to print the info you really think is important – it is a fools game to hope that someone you don’t know holding data they don’t know is there, safe.

          (I was in Berlin last week and the whole burning of the books thing made me think how vulnerable things are in the days of YouTube channel strikedowns and net censorship, what happened 2 days after my Mumbai presentation – the removal of Shoulders work from the internet – was a wake-up call)

          • HS61AF91

            Thanks, no wonder my ecat file is so fat.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Keep it so – if someone EMPs the place, ‘friend’ or foe, your archive will be ‘where we left off’

        • Omega Z

          Free energy was discovered long ago.

          Wood, peat moss, coal, oil, gas are all free. Then their is the cost of extracting that free energy. Some energy is just cheaper to extract and make usable. Thus the correct term is looking for cheaper energy. Not free. Free energy is a misnomer.

          • HS61AF91

            So true, hence my; (‘free’ as in E-Cat technology being very cheap to use) parenthetical abbreviation. ‘Bout the only free thing, if one chooses to exercise it, is one’s will.

          • Omega Z

            Yes, anytime someone says free energy, I suffer an involuntary eye roll. It gives an opponent of any new energy source a valid argument. Even if they are completely wrong about a new energy source. Cheaper energy is easier to defend. Even if it’s only marginally cheaper then current energy, cheaper still stands.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Just like the slang of thankyou in Czech is “diky” said in exactly the same way in Malayalam means boot of the car.

            I have stated my meaning behind my use of the term and I will stick to that.

          • Chapman

            How is that pronounced?

            It looks like another word I use a lot, especially when I am drinking with my non-PC friends…

            Just wondering about the Czech roots, and the specific phonetics, and how “thank you” got so horribly misapplied across language barriers!

          • Bob Greenyer

            dih key

      • Martin Lund

        Apparently you couldn’t take a hint the first time I didn’t respond to your nonsensical conspiracy questions.

        The theory of Muon catalyzed fusion predates by far the experimental involvement of Steven E. Jones so no it should not be dismissed. It is still being actively researched and maybe one day we will see it’s energy application if the practical problems can eventually be resolved.

        Maybe Steven E. Jones was once a good and active scientist but now he has clearly gone off the deep end with his 9.11 conspiracy theories in much the same way of Dr. Judy Wood. Also, the history of Fleischman and Pons and Steven E. Jones is unfortunate and tragic.

        As I’ve repeated before, the field of LENR is having enough of a difficult time already and we don’t need people like you to beat the drum of 9.11/LENR conspiracy theories. This way you will only hurt LENR and even the MFMP project more. I suggest you continue focusing on testing potential LENR devices but keep your conspiracy theories to yourself – it would be best for everyone.

        • Bob Greenyer

          You keep binging it back to something you feel will discredit me.

          I follow the evidence – without fear or prejudice. I know that if you chose to really look at the evidence (which is not theories) you would find it difficult to come to terms with, assuming you are playing straight.

          Mainstream science has shouted from the rooftops that LENR is not possible – The MFMP has apparently repeatedly demonstrated LIVE, in two different systems (Celani and Rossi) excess heat evidence and has shown LIVE nuclear level photon emission and thermal neutrons. Through our meeting with Piantelli and organising of independent testing of ashes from both me356 and Suhas Ralkar, we have strong evidence of a predicted and repeatable LENR reaction and have fully described how Suhas Ralkar is achieving it.

          Given the above I believe that, on the subject of LENR, mainstream science is losing credibility and therefore my trust in their mantras and ‘laws’ is loosening.

          This blog was not about what you brought up, it was about Steven Greer’s valid considerations on human failings with respect to this technology and specifically with respect to ROSSI.

          To that end I fully answer your comment on my own blog – if you have the intelligence and courage to debate the issue there, then I welcome your contributions date stamped and immutable in the blockchain. Let’s take each phenomena at a time, complete with the video, pictorial or other data in questions and you can tell me how mainstream science explains it – citing examples, and I can do likewise. It has no place here on this more narrow blog.

          https://steemit.com/blog/@homosymbion/see-shells-on-the-shill-shore-answering-martin-lund

          • Martin Lund

            Your fallacy is believing that because LENR is true you think all other conspiracy theories must also be true and all you need to reinforce your beliefs are some loosely coupled “evidence” from some random conspiracy websites and books with very questionable origin and motives. You have said in the red pill video that the twin towers were destroyed by LENR energy weapons mounted on the belly of the attacking airplanes… I only have one word for you… NUTS!

            No sir, your have long ago left rationality behind and I’m not going to entertain your need to discuss your LENR/9.11 conspiracy theories. My only hope is that you don’t ruin things for MFMP in your quest to reveal your conspiracy theories.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Rossi has had multiple published theories about how his claimed technology works – Do we all cling doggedly to the paper put forward by him and Focardi, or do we discuss the Cook paper or the Gullstrom first paper or the current Gullstrom paper? Science is an iterative process, I put my understanding out for criticism and consideration come what may, as it develops, just like Rossi is doing, you seem to like to fixate on something and state that as being the current understanding for all time. Your character assassination of me without any reasoned arguments and debate, show your real motive. You don’t wish to persuade, perhaps you don’t have the where with all to.

            I do not think that the conspiracy theory put forward by Steven E. Jones is real. I do not think that the conspiracy theory put forward by Jim Fetzer (who’s name is apparently officially recorded as visiting the last administrations white house). So, therefore, I do not believe all conspiracy theories – I demonstrate therefore, categorically, that your claim about me is a fallacy. Both of these conspiracy theories are allowed to be on Wikipedia – the fact based work of the structural engineer Dr. Judy Wood, which has yet to be challenged in 10 years, is not permitted.

            What would you say is Dr. Woods motive? It did not benefit her in any way. What would you say mine is? I knew that some people would be triggered, as you have, and try to call me names and psychoanalyse why I can have a different understanding to their own, strongly held beliefs… I did not benefit in any way – it was a VERY hard decision to make, but I had no choice – nothing else makes sense and when Suhas said he had seen glowing Titanium and liquid Iron, and I saw that these occurred in a water bath with no steam explosion – and knowing that me356 had seen glowing steel without a temperature change more than a year ago – I knew that these researchers that I had met face to face with, had independently replicated effects observed following the events which we shall not mention. Given that these are LENR researchers and they are seeing the same effects as highlighted in evidence by Judy Wood, what rational conclusion would you suggest I draw?

            Dr. Judy Woods work is not theory, it is a collection of recorded and undeniable observations an facts. Her entire premise is to focus on WHAT happened.

            My thinking progresses. You don’t want to do research or enter into fact based debate that may ask you to re-think your passive aggressive stance towards me, that is your right, but you have to understand, when I was young I heard people telling me about Santa Claus, my thinking has moved on since then, as it has from when I first went to ICCF17 and as it has since I gave my presentation in Mumbai.

            Over the years, I had to fight to stop the MFMP from real attacks from parties trying to compromise or tear it apart – this is a fact I had to contend with. Our current board and collaborators have proven they deserve trust, the MFMP is stronger than ever and we all know that we are a team of free-thinking individuals with a common objective, to see this technology realised.

          • TOUSSAINT francois

            Why don’t you get lost, you are just a nuisance

    • akupaku

      I wasn’t aware that ZPE was a conspiracy theory. As far as I know the Casimir effect is a well proven phenomenon and widely accepted as real in the physics community. Do you have any facts behind your statement or is it just prejudice or ignorance?

      Any ideas how we can tap ZPE would be very welcome and a few credible ideas have been presented by physicists. One that comes to my mind is from professor Garret Moddel from University of Colorado. He had a very interesting presentation at the Society of Scientific Exploration about this subject but unfortunately they have now put their presentations behind a paywall.

      Similar ideas could be said about UFOs and 9.11. but I guess they are not valid subjects in this forum.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Piantelli could have taken the Titanium/Vanadium story to his grave, his friend and colleague Dr. Sergio Focardi presumably did, unless of course he told someone after he retired.

    Fortunately, because of the power of this community, the courage of Piantelli and circumstances whilst we were with him, he did reveal his biggest secret and only because of the subsequent blind openness of me356 and Suhas Ralkar were we able to see that there was truth to what he told us.

    • Vinney

      Focardi was the equal, if not better than Piantelli, and he worked with Rossi.
      All that knowledge lives with Andrea Rossi, that is why we are nearly there.
      And we will get there, because Rossi is a once in a century inventor.

      • Bob Greenyer

        What you say about Focardi is true.

        Your statement on Rossi will stand true after he reveals what makes his claims possible – until that day, he is a failed inventor waiting to happen.

        To date, the level of excess that had been observed in replications of his work is no higher than that observed by proceeding LENR experiments.

  • BionAlexHoward

    Catalyzed fusion relies on sound principles of nuclear chemistry. Just look at the graph of binding energy per nucleon. The slope from lighter atoms up to iron is steep. That isn’t something a government agency can hide. Humanity simply hasn’t figured out the right catalysis yet…

  • Warthog

    “Zero Point Energy hasn’t. For example the cold fusion plants from Stargate”

    Dude..ZPE was all over Stargate (Stargate Atlantis).

  • Chapman

    No one is saying ZPE does not exist. They are saying it can not be tapped and drained like an energizer battery. Ugly exists, but there is no method for powering a microwave from it. Stupid exists, but we can not tap it to provide lift.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Oh I don’t know, I get a lift when I am stupid.

      • Chapman

        HA!!! A perfect reply!!!

        !!! 🙂 !!!

  • I find it quite interesting that Steven Greer pulls out A.R as an example to clean new energy, unfortunately that could mean that they have looked into quite a few technologies to establish they were not going anywhere.

    I’ve never spoken directly to Steven but I assume he has contacted Rossi extending offers of funding for open sourcing the technology. One has to wonder, why did he refuse, just as one wonder why he refused to go into discussions with Elon Musk and instead choose to work with some lawyers / VC’s with no real technical background.

    • Sumscientist

      Rossi has said he is interested in having people from Musk’s companies attend the October demonstration. I don’t know why he previously didn’t want to work with them (assuming that is true, which I can’t confirm).

      • I was not aware of that. Hope they show up.

      • David Pares, A. K. A. “that dude who is trying to be a real-life version of Zefram Cochrane,” said that Pares would not want to work with Musk because Musk likes to open source a lot of stuff. I think that Rossi has the same issue with Musk.

        • Omega Z

          Musk only open sources things that benefit him. Even then it has strings attached so can you really call it open source.

          Recall the VHS and Beta war. Musk open sourced certain battery tech only to ensure his technology is the primary tech. It would be very costly to him if his tech went by the wayside like Beta max. What appears to be open source to others is just smart business to Musk to stay relevant. If he had already captured the market, he wouldn’t have done this.

          • Uhh…okay…

    • Omega Z

      “choose to work with some lawyers / VC’s with no real technical background.”

      Because they told him what he wanted to hear in a convincing manor. With the potential of this technology, it would be quite hard to find anyone with honorable intent. Even if you should, that intent can change. One can easily succumb to dreams of grandeur. There is more at play here then just wealth.

      • Well said. Just as Rossi, they also positioned themselves as Christians, that could have played in also.

  • Alan DeAngelis
    • Chapman

      Alan, I can’t seem to keep myself from coming back over and over to watch that again! Hilarious!

      But do you think my fixation with it might be a sign of a subconscious cry for help? After all, I am admittedly “odd”. Perhaps my mind is trying to get me to read the writing on the wall, so to speak! 🙂

      Regardless of my sanity, THAT clip is infectiously funny!!!

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Well, we all know that sanity is seeking the seal of approval of “responsible scientists” (the jealous butthurt upstaged prima donnas who got
        it totally wrong and set LENR back for more than a quarter of a century).

        • Chapman

          Then call me fruitloops, and measure me for a straightjacket!!!

          I kinda LIKE the view from outside.

  • Chapman

    I exclude NO possibilities… I simply exclude ZPE.

    • Nick Sunchild

      I got your logic,
      i exclude no possibly = I exclude no possibly – ZPE

      A = A – B

      Thanks for that math lesson, that’s the lift formula. Isn’t it?

      • It’s true if B=0, so if A = A -ZPE and he thinks ZPE=0 , then it’s true.

        • Nick Sunchild

          Yes mathematically absolute Right

          But the Variables are not free…
          They Represent as shown

          i exclude no possibly = I exclude no possibly – ZPE

          So they become bound variables
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_variables_and_bound_variables

          and both are something so they can’t be 0 or negative

          Nice Try 😀
          I Respect it

        • Chapman

          (shhh…. just let him work on it. he will get it eventually)

  • Chapman

    So, these two hydrogen anions are hanging around in a nickel lattice, when one suddenly exclaims, “Hey, I think I just lost my electrons!”

    The other one says, “You sure?”.

    And the first hollers back, as he speeds away, “Yeah! I am absolutely POSITIVE!!!”.

    Just something to ponder…

  • Chapman
  • sam

    TOUSSAINT francois
    August 14, 2017 at 5:38 AM
    Dear Andrea Rossi

    This link about your work at 2h:35

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nhsUzZd0uE

    Warm regards

    Toussaint françois

    Translate
    Andrea Rossi
    August 14, 2017 at 6:54 AM
    Toussaint Francois:
    Thank you for the link,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Bob Greenyer

    How then was matter generated in the ‘big bang’ given E=MC^2

    The equation implies the mass came from downsampled pure energy.

    Where was this energy stored?

  • georgehants

    From a rare time of True scientific advances by a very small group of collective geniuses that lasted from Plank in 1900 to the 1940’s.
    ——–
    We all agree your theory is crazy… but is it crazy enough to be true?
    Niels Bohr

  • Rene
    • Bob Greenyer

      If only we could make a LENR video that delivered convincing information that garnered that level of views!

  • The IMP

    But element 115 didn’t even come close to the properties that Bob Lazar claimed.

    • akupaku

      And how is Bob Lazar related to this article?

    • Reggie

      They haven’t found or created the stable isotopes of 115 yet, so the jury is still out on that old story….

  • Omega Z

    “Ugly is only a word”

    Ha, You haven’t seen my mother-in-law.

  • Wholewitt

    The word is said, not sad which means something entirely different. Many of us know Ugly when we see it, the rest marry it.

  • I would be interested to know what arguments the readers of E-catworld can list for and against open sourcing technology.

    • Bob Greenyer

      In the case of the underlying understanding that comes from knowing how LENR works, there is no other technology that can be practically referenced as comparable. In my partial list below I am talking about the broad spectrum of what this specific technological family implies.

      – Against
      Opens the whole pandoras tool box (for the masses, it is already open)
      Those that have it and want to maintain their status, might go to extremes to prevent its wider adoption
      People cannot handle the implications of what it can do and, by recognition, what it has done (amply demonstrated over the course of the last 6 months)
      Extreme disruption to almost every human organisational structure

      – For (if managed correctly)
      Cannot be shut down
      Technology will be taken out of the hands of the few
      Fastest way to wide adoption, Android showed that
      Profound changes to capabilities and options for humans
      Capability for new modes of transportation, living and existence
      Would be a great leveller, people would be recognised for their contribution to society not how much they have to rent or their sanctioned ability to create trade tokens

      • Warthog

        “Fastest way to wide adoption, Android showed that”

        Android shows exactly the opposite. Before Android, there was Linux, which is also open source. Linux was and is a niche technology. Android’s success is because it is married to highly successful commercial hardware products. In other words “capitalism”. “Open sourcing” the technology had nothing to do with it.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I think I said Android, not Linux – Linux was not made/developed for smart phones, Android was.

          I think pollution free very low cost energy would be a big seller.

          • Warthog

            “I think I said Android, not Linux – Linux was not made/developed for smart phones, Android was.”

            You did, and you just re-made my point. Both Android and Linux are open source. One was ONLY “open source”, and, in fact, has been ported to probably every computer system type that exists, including smartphones, yet remains a niche product. The other was tied to a successful market product (nasty capitalism there) and helped change the world. Availability as “open source” was not the cause of Android’s success.

            “I think pollution free very low cost energy would be a big seller.”

            I absolutely agree, but I think Rossi is correct….mass adoption will come about because of a successful commercial product. Whether that be Rossi’s E-cat, Brillouin’s “hot tube boiler”, or some other device remains to be seen.

            Note that the above is only for commercialization/capitalism……”open source science” is a whole different category, and is, IMO, the ultimate future of science as a whole. Absolute transparency bypasses all the self-important “gate-keepers” who infest science publishing and funding.

          • Omega Z

            Android was based on the Linux Kernel. Both were highly supported by Corporate city. IBM alone invested Billions in Linux in order to get out from under Microsoft. Linux is currently supported by several hundred Corporations(all the big boys) and hold sway on 90% of how it is continued to be developed. Google was the 1st Major to step in to Android when it was on the verge of collapse and oblivion. This is no different then Elon Musk open sourcing some of his battery tech(Strings included). He did it for his financial gain by setting his tech up as the one to use(the market standard). Like VHS vs Beta.

          • Warthog

            I’m well aware that Android is Linux-based, and of the fact that many corporations have attempted (and failed) to use it as a platform to avoid the WinTel behemoth. I just didn’t feel that this forum was the place to delve that deeply into the history of software.

            The fact remains that only Android has succeeded in the mass market. And that success is due to the teaming of Android with a successful hardware effort.

            Yes, corporations use it, contribute to its development, and have “some” say in development direction, but the fact remains that it “is” open source, and anyone can use it, free of charge.

          • Omega Z

            Couple of points. Both Linux and Android are held up as examples of open source freeing the masses from Corporate control & involvement. It didn’t. And, both were only successful because the Corporations supported it or neither would likely have survived to be of any use.

            The way that open source has worked in both cases is no different then IBM and Intel openly collaborating on a project.

            Note, Many arguments arise due to Microsoft’s monopoly on Windows. They’ve only been able to enforce that monopoly because they can break you in the legal system(Big Bucks). All things being equal, they couldn’t win. Much of what they protect was actually prior art. So-called window and multiples of them were used in programming years before Microsoft Windows was ever created. Used by individual programmers and even Apple.
            Open source simply wouldn’t accomplish what many seem to believe.

          • Warthog

            This is gonna sound corny, but I espouse the Vulcan (Star Trek) philosophy “infinite diversity from infinite combinations”. The more ways there are for humans to work together, the better things will be. The problems arise when one or another way of doing things decides it has to become “the only way”, no matter whether that “way” is communism, socialism, monopolistic capitalism, crony capitalism. Let’em all compete, but maximize competition/diversity. I think Teddy Roosevelt got it right, not Franklin Delano.

          • Omega Z

            Yeah, Sci-Fi/Star trek creators did a good job predicting tech advances. Who doesn’t have a personal communicator. Likely their time line was off. A sort of Tricorder seems only a couple decades away.

            Some of their story lines don’t come to gather as likely, but hey it was for entertainment and doing the more likely probably wouldn’t sell.

            The show inspired as a lot of people. An interviewer talking to R&D people trying to scale down technology for cell phones to analyze ingredients. It looks like you’re trying to develop a sort of Star Trek Tricorder. Were you inspired by that? Guy looks down sheepishly and says, yeah.

      • US_Citizen71

        Android’s success is due to the open sourcing of it allowing capitalists to make money with it on their devices. Also because the only other alternative at the time was under lock and key. Google didn’t open source it out of the kindness of the hearts, they did it to make money from the tie ins to their ecosystem.

        • Sam

          Exactly, for some reason people like to think about Open Sourcing as “you give everything away” to let others profit on your invention.

          When people here on this forum speak of open source and crowd fund, we are not talking about giving stuff away, it’s not charity and we are not talking about doing so because it’s “nice”.

          You can open source and still be ruthless, still make money. There is companies without products who crowd funded HUGE sums, the e-cat if working could gobble up hundreds of millions of dollars easily in crowd funding, and NOTHING would have to be sold or given in return, it’s not a loan. It’s hard to justify how Rossi’s technology works but he needs to SELL it to some VC’s and perform a one year test when he could have been making many tests under short amount of time and busted the bank.

          Yes, he is taking the hard route, he and others.

          • Omega Z

            And VC’s are not nice people. Where do people think the phrase- Kill the inventor came from.

          • Sam

            Well, if they would be it would serve their self-interests. (Being nice, or… killing the inventor)

            I have learned a lot from studying my cuddly cat who is a total psychopath, when we are nice to people we are very much manipulating.

            Killing the inventor in homicidal rage is not as practical as to ‘decapitating him with purring’ or ‘killing him with kindness’. In the end, its means to serve the strategic purpose of ratifying our ultimate goal.

            Many here including myself would love to think of ourselves as nice but in reality we would destroy our enemies with rage of biblical proportions was it not unpractical, time consuming and most of the time counter productive.

            Someone who I think is really “nice” is Donald Trump, not because he is intrinsically different from us and stems from a different planet who evolved different from us, but because he aligns his self-interest with the self-interest of others to create win – win scenarios.

            Instead of serving only self-interest he appeals to ‘mutual self-interest’. Giving others what they want, or what they need, does not work against our own self-interest – therefor its a “nice” thing to do.

            I do not at all mind VC’s to get rich or make money as long as what they are doing is working in favor of mutual self-interest. At the end of the day, we who advocate open sourcing or crowd fund funding do so because of s.t.r.a.t.e.g.y.

            If Nicola Tesla lived today, or Leonardo Da Vinci, I doubt very much they would see much self-interest in doing what the leading High-Cop inventors are doing trying to go commercial. The guy who was a presidential advisory on the commercialization of disruptive technology who went to MIT to convey his message to the CF community said this one thing – the best way to sell your crap is to give it away!

            Technology developed supposedly capable of epic planetary domination does not need one year tests in a secret container with made up customers and referrals – that’s stupid. From the outside we all look as dubious religious fanatics when we do not questions the fallacy of this methodology.

            We can justify our believes as we do with hundreds of arguments that might have been valid two hundred years ago but when we are dealing with an innovation capable of “CHANGING EVERYTHING”, why do have to conform to old ways of doing stuff?. A new source of energy changes the game completely, we would not we have to follow the rules when we could make up completely new rules. To me it does not equal up.

            To the average six-pack Joe on the street, the equation is very simple, but we are so much smarter than him, with our apologetics we can develop entire would where we justify our believes that wont hold up more much longer. The Rossi saga is not the first of its kind, its a continuation of a saga and a meme that has been going on for over a hundred years – as the whole world now is interconnect the old excuses then was not applicable now. There is no longer a valid reason we need to life on faith if we could just test it ourselves.

        • Omega Z

          And Apple I-phone debuted just as Google/Android was about to release a collaborated T-mobile phone. Required a quick re-engineering in order to even attempt to enter the smart phone market. Of course the I-phone also opened the doors to other phone carriers to Google/Android as well. But you’re correct. They didn’t do it to be nice. They did it to help them gain market share with the help of app builders.

          • US_Citizen71

            Oh I remember I traded in my T-Mobile MDA for a G1 the day it came out. I would have gone with an IPhone but AT&T had essentially no signal where I lived. The exclusive with AT&T was a huge mistake on Apple’s part.

          • Omega Z

            In general, the phone carriers were in control and didn’t want to give that up and lose part of their revenue stream. Apple sold AT&T on the monopoly plan to get them to go along. Google/Android had the same problem cracking the door open. T-mobile resisted for quite a while. The Apple-AT&T deal made all carriers change their position quite rapidly. Just shows that a free market works.

  • Omega Z

    Yes, Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg have been trading barbs about AI. I agree with Zuckerberg who has a better understanding of programming. Computers aren’t self aware or intelligent. They are merely crunching code that was programmed into them. A mere set of instructions.

    I’m only concerned with errant programming. A real possibility or some nut job with ill intent. If people such as Hawking and Musk want to re-frame their argument in these terms, I’m ready to listen.

    I believe people like Musk confuse the computers speed at certain task with intelligence. Thinking a computer beating a human at a game(which has set parameters) makes it smart don’t have a good understanding. Even a dumb program can beat the best game player. The best chess player can only think about 5 moves ahead. The computer can process to the completion of a game with all the calculated odds every move. Then rinse repeat.

  • Chapman

    Now THAT right there was FUNNY!!!

    • Bob Greenyer

      Until you say it to your wife…

  • Zephir

    The root of problem is, we have no public incentives for inventors who are doing breakthrough research. So that these inventors refrain to classification of their research for to protect their investments and time spending. It’s understandable but also brake of the further progress.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Good points Zephir

      • artefact

        Bob, how is Suhas fuel on the photo plate doing?

        • Bob Greenyer

          I am on family holiday at the moment – but I do have an opportunity to go and take a look today – I am quite intrigued to see what it looks like too.

        • Bob Greenyer

          As promised.

          Strange Radiation Update 4 – 3+Weeks

          Further degredation

          https://youtu.be/aQhdZOT_aX4

    • Chapman

      There is no doubt that you know your “stuff”!

      But the issue here is the gulf that exists between the reality of ZPE and the MYTH that surrounds it.

      ZPE, as you state, is just the thermal noise which surrounds us and is caused by quantum fluctuations constantly occurring. Standard Model/QM views them as virtual particles precipitating from, and exiting to, an underlying field, while dense ether theory tells us that these matter/antimatter particles already exist in a bound state and only become visible when they “crack apart”, which entails absorbing energy, then they recombine and release that energy (as opposed to annihilating).

      In either case, we have a situation where even when all the physical thermal energy observed has been reduced from a controlled environment, bringing it to the lowest point we can force, these particle/antiparticle actions still insist on fouling things up and disturbing the perfect stillness we are trying to create by supercooling.

      Another aspect of that action produces the Casimir effect, where two plates are so close that there is no room between them for these virtual particle pairs to “snap, crackle, and pop”, while on either SIDE of the two plates these actions continue, and keep banging on the outside surfaces of the plates, driving them together and effectively gluing them together by the physical force of those collisions. NOTE: This is a mechanical action resulting in the exclusion of the particle antics BETWEEN the plates. No energy is created, no energy is consumed, no energy is converted. The plates are simply hammered together by the action of those particle pairs, which are themselves wholly unaffected by having herded the plates together.

      ZPE is a derivative, or secondary manifestation, of the EM force. It is just the induced motion and interaction of those particle/antiparticle pairs resulting from their relative charges. It is not a separate and unique “force”. it is just a general quantity of bound EM force energy maintained at any given second by the sum total of ALL the pairs/ antipairs that blanket space.

      So… What can we deduce from this simple understanding? Well, the only way to HARVEST that energy, which is what you would have to do in order for you to call it “free energy” (which is different than proposing a mechanism where by you could HARNESS that action to work for you in a greater construct designed to more efficiently converting some OTHER energy, through your device, into a more useful form) you would need to intercept those pairs, and prevent them from recombining by taking away the energy potential they inherited from the splitting action. It is highly unlikely you COULD do so without expending more energy than the isolated particles would yield, but the other result would be that you would basically crystallize space! You would actually be squeezing matter out of the ether, and increasing the total “Matter” in the visible universe!

      In short, while ZPE exists, as an observable FUNCTION of the EM force on the quantum scale, it is NOT an energy source that can itself be harvested and converted to mechanical energy of any kind. It is simply a force between particles. It MAY be useful as a mechanism to assist in converting some OTHER energy into a form we prefer, but ZPE itself is not a “SOURCE”.

      Perhaps, some billions of years from now, our great great great… descendents may find themselves in a universe that is sadly lacking in matter, due to continued expansion and the depleting effects of black holes, and THEY may conceive of a way to tap ZPE, regardless of the energy budget, with the express purpose of precipitating NEW MATTER into the local neighborhood. This would be quite a feat, and borders on “creation” itself. Wonderful if they can manage it, but we will not be around to offer our advice or criticism.

      Once again we have a situation where people HEAR about something, and run off with a half-baked notion of what “might” be. I implore you all to just think things through before jumping off of logic cliffs. It does not even require any cutting edge physics to understand ZPE, and having understood it, it only takes a moment to think through what you CAN and CANNOT do with it.

      • Nick Sunchild

        https://youtu.be/hKFPlmkByl0

        No myth… old knowledge… come on
        not only a function…
        photons popping into existence
        What you call virtual, are existing particles that’s proved, peer reviewed years ago.

        You are more intelligent than your text, don’t make me disappointed.

  • Martin Lund

    You guys just can’t stop putting words in my mouth. So now I’m a Quantum Field Theory denier – what an absurd assumption!

    I’m not denying the quantum mechanical concept of ZPE. What I am against is conspiracy theorists that believe ZPE technology is being suppressed by the government in league with oil companies and others.

  • Jarea

    Bravo Stefen Greer!!!
    You have said loud and clear! Rossi is wrong with this approach!. Very wrong!.
    I have been saying that before. The human greediness will be the failure that carries us to the tomb. Rossi thinks he is special, he is better than others. That is not true, by thinking this he is doing the same failure of the elites that try to grave him. He thinks he worked hard (true) and that he is the only one that deserves all the money and the glory (false because we work for all we are all one). He should think that many before him has tried to free humanity from oil. Elites controls us through energy. Rossi should be more like Tesla a real hero that elites wanted to grave and forget. We have awaken and we know now what Tesla did and deserved. Tesla gave us this better world and he did expecting nothing. That is what i call the superhuman!
    We are not talking about a kitchen device, we are talking about free energy. The big secret that governments and elites have tried to hide from us. Stefen Greer knows what he is talking because free energy is related to the Extraterrestrial and UFO subject. Once we discover that we are not alone, what we are (a genetic and conscious experiment from several ET races), free energy will be peanuts, once we know about the secrets kept by few people controlling the experiment, or directly from our creators, we will demand their magic appearing technology which is more than free energy, is about what we are, our consciousness, our purpose our eternal life. Then, even greediness will have no sense in a world where replicators will give you any material you wish.

    Now look how bad the Rossi strategic is. He thinks he is David against Goliath and that he will win. Sorry, but that will not happen with that strategy. We are all one mister Rossi, so let us all be Rossi and fight for you.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Lucid an on-topic contribution.

    • Omega Z

      Energy has nothing to do with it. Elites have controlled us always. That will not change. With a new energy source, some players may change, but all will still be the same. “free energy” Free Energy is a misnomer. All energy begins free, but extracting and harnessing it has a cost. That will not change.

      Rossi should behave more like Tesla. Tesla died destitute. He should have monetized his work. Perhaps then more of his work would have advanced even further. It’s hard to accomplish much without a positive cash flow.

      If our creators intended us to have, no number of people could stop it. You should consider, If Rossi was of the belief he had to give away his technology, probably he would just still be selling generators that burn vegetable oil etc… There would be no E-cat, E-cat world, MFMP or any of the current LENR/Cold Fusion blogs. These discussions would not exist. And Open Source is not what many envision it to be. It is more illusion then real.

      • georgehants

        Morning Omega, do you purposely state correctly the problems and then just give up and say, nothing we can do to improve things?
        Your first point, answer just change the system like great people always have.
        Your second point, Tesla should have been rewarded by society for his work not be punished by insane capitalism.
        Your third point, your argument starts in error and continues on, You have no idea what our “creators have in mind for us, how about this reality is produced purely for us to learn to care and share, there is no need for Rossi or anybody contributing to society not to be well rewarded by that same society, there is no need for capital, finance, rich parasites, etc. etc. the only thing needed in any area is the appropriate number of workers.
        Remove inefficient insane capitalism and you remove millions of people to work in worthwhile jobs and reduce the working hours of everybody.
        Many other logical points but it is hard work combating the terrible psychological mess created in our society by those few running things to their own advantage and the many fooled into believing such crap.
        Always remember we all “know” there are no UFO’s, there are actually many people even on this presumed open-minded Website that are so unable to think that they actually believe such illogical denials.

        • Jarea

          Well said georgehants!!

        • Omega Z

          George, you just don’t understand economics and human nature. If you did your views would change. Possibly to the point most people could tolerate, No, actually agree with them.

          Pt-1 “just change the system”- Why. You still have the same people.

          Pt-2 Had Tesla monetized his work, This is how Society rewards you. Left to it’s own means, Society will just take.

          Pt 3 You apparently didn’t understand. If our creators wanted us to have something. It would be. No one could stop it. However, that would eliminate free will. In which case you become nothing but a hardwired robot.

          The system we have works best. It merely needs some taming down. There is obviously some who are over paid Not so many as you may think and changing this would have little impact on everyone else.

          I’ll assume if you don’t, you would like to own your own home. That makes you a capitalist. That is the crux of capitalism. The right to ownership. Owning a home is your wealth. This extends to building factories or any other business. The reason capitalism works is that it plays to human nature. Going against nature ultimately fails.

          As to people not having the means to “earn” a living like a decent job is due to monetary policy which is separate from capitalism. Our monetary policy is managed by a lot of people that either put themselves ahead of those they are supposed to help or are clueless about how to do their job(I say both). There are many legitimate ways to inject money into a system that has value without forcing unfounded debt. Again, this has nothing to do with capitalism.

          “there are no UFO’s”. That’s Silly. There are many Unidentified Flying Objects seen everyday. Ohh wait. ET’s. That’s different. Highly probable considering the size of the Universe. Only arrogance would allow one to think otherwise. That ET’s are in collaboration with our governments to control and enslave us is nonsense. We don’t need anyone’s help doing that.

          • Jarea

            There are so many assumptions in your comment and a big misunderstanding of what is wrong that i think whatever i will argue you will not want to consider. So i just would say that YOU are the one that still don´t understand how the world works.

          • Omega Z

            An individual has 1 obligation to himself and society. To try and provide for himself. Anything else is reprehensible. Asking others to provide for you without just compensation is wrong. We are not slaves to one another.

          • psi2u2

            “Anything else is reprehensible.”

            Really? What an extraordinarily selfish idea.

          • georgehants

            Omega, the whole point is that you seem to avoid and hide the Fact that nobody is saying that anybody should not be well rewarded for their efforts to society.
            Why do you keep doing this, when the topic is simply to improve the system.
            Our whole armed forces are rewarded in this way for them doing something that is a complete waste of time, millions of our best young people achieving absolutely nothing and being rewarded with tokens to spend on things that are produced by the genuine workers of a country.
            Are those working to supply billions of pounds worth of arms etc. being slaves to society, it simply becomes caring and sharing to produce the necessities etc. for all.
            Please, I am not debating the need for armed forces only the principle.

          • Jarea

            Nobody says that others must provide something to an specific individual. Individuals should decide that the service to others is the best way, because service to others is at the end service to you. But that in fact is a decision of each individual.
            We have to became self responsible and decide where the resources should go, leaving that decision to the governments is not the solution. This is again, because it empowers elites and not individuals. We must account for each resource we provide. Small local communities seems to me better options to manage the resources, look for Ubuntu idea of Michael Tellinger .
            Many fight the whole life to just accumulate and control everything, that creates distrust from other individuals so that he reach a point that he has to use violence or abusive contracts to force other individuals to participate in his power game. This is wrong and has been shown defect!
            I don’t know why you repeat and repeat that this idea is asking/forcing others to only provide.
            Each individual decide, and each individual according to his options should contribute to the persons he want.

          • georgehants

            Omega Z, many thanks, your reply regarding capitalism is completely closed-minded and illogical based on my only point of improving the terrible failures of our system, your view regarding ET’s is of course correct except you gave a rather off center example to work with, but you are still in error as it is only your opinion, that you state as if it where a Fact, thank you for sharing.

      • Jarea

        Energy is the best way they have to control us. That is Because energy can be changed to any other commodity. If we are out of the grid or we can be energy independent, then we are a closed environment and we can do whatever we want. We can grow our food, we can recycle and clean everything. You will say that energy without the technology to harvest it has zero value, and you are right but that doesn´t change the fact that energy is the main way they have to control us. Harvesting energy is the saint grial of all the technologies. They can cut all other technologies, the access to the know how of other technologies as they try, but if you keep the knowledge for harvesting “free energy” then you will be free.

        If you try to denigrate the name of Tesla because he died poor, then you are wrong. Very wrong. Tesla died doing what he wanted to do, he died without having remorse or having any doubt of his path. Once he said, the present is for you, but the future is for me. He was convinced of that. “He should have monetized this work” -: He had many opportunities to do it, with Edisson. Monetizing his work means agree to contractual obligations that would be not moral or that yields to loose the control, usage and more important the distribution of the technology. Ask Rossi how good the contract with Darden went!. The elite snakes will finish you because you allowed them to do it by accepting their contract. You cannot win this battle with money, because the elites control the money!!!. Yes our Goliath is that big. You only can win this battle with conscious , service to others and being more loving to others. They can´t fight that with money.
        You again thinks that story of the free energy is the story of a kitchen device, that you can monetize it as you were free to do it. With a kitchen device, the elites would let you to do it, with free energy not. Is that simple. The “monetize model” doesn´t work with free energy because we live in a human farm controlled by them. We can have our gadgets but not the key to our freedom.
        Please, don´t go more into Tesla, it seems you don´t know him enough, he doesn´t deserve any bad interpretation of his work, for being a better human than us.

        Your last paragraph makes no sense to me. Your assumptions are that in a collaborative/open source enterprise everything would be destroyed. The facts says the opposite. If Rossi would give the technology open source, many others would contribute and create a network of sharing that would be very difficult to stop. You may argue that open source is communist, that this has been proven bad and that is wrong! very wrong. Communist and capitalist are different views of the same problem, it empowers somebody that is not the individual but a hierarchy that is out of control of the individual. That is the problem. We need to empower the individual. Open source creates that by providing freedom to everyone. Communism provides to a central and corruptible government the power over individuals ,and capitalism provides to the corruptible big CEO companies or to central private(FED)/state banks the power over the societies and persons. The key is to empower each individual to be their own master, own food producer, own energy producer and have self responsibility.

        Regarding our creators is a more deep topic, i would not like to enter. This is because, it requires much more knowledge in the subject. Not all of our “generic contributors” wanted us to be a farm, some expect from us more. I just would say, ETs need to provide us free will to not contaminate the experiment. Therefore, first we should take down the human tools that intercede them. That is the way they overcome the free will contract problem.

        • Omega Z

          “Please, don´t go more into Tesla”

          All I said was he should have Monetized it. If it had value, it would have been manufactured and sold while Tesla would have made a good living off it.

          Open source-communism. I said no such thing.

          However, Open source is not very efficient and those currently in manufacturing will ultimately still be the ones in manufacturing. To bring something to the market fast and in mass requires hugh investments. However, those investments allows products to you for far less in price then you could ever make them for. Thus the huge gain in peoples standard of living.

          Some people are so hateful of CEO’s that they will spend $2000 dollars building an item rather then buy that item for $100 dollars. Just to keep that CEO from getting his share, a single shiny little penny.

          The ruling class does not need to control energy to control you. The can just pass a law. It’s really that simple. And you have no right to demand Rossi give you his knowledge. He is not a slave to society.

  • Omega Z

    Android, Yes, Many major Corporations have made 10’s of billions each and become even larger. So called open source Linux and Android were really open source for business. Not the masses. The merely had many people help them build it. For Free…

  • Carl Wilson

    To me what he “seems” to be is a rather entertaining fabulist. Aside from his internal contradictions do you have any suggestions for investigation?

  • Jarea

    Greer could also be a tool of the globalists yes (David Rockefeller financed him), but his intentions are still to disclosure ETs.
    For me that is a step forward whatever the globalists wants to make it use of it.
    If the disclosure is the event that elites want to use to create a dictatorial globalist state, then they are again wrong. The unity of the people comes not from imposed fear to ETs (order from chaos) or hierarchy but the unity comes from understanding that each individual rights are over the community rights. The end of an individual right is the start of the same right in the next individual. This continuous form the community. The best way individual can grow under this true is by communication and contribution, in other words, service to others is service to self.

    • Omega Z

      Do ET’s exist. Highly probable. Are they working with the Elite. Nonsense. No body’s hiding any such nonsense.

      Individual rights. We all like to think so. Truth. Your rights are only what the community says they are. Right or wrong doesn’t matter.

      • Jarea

        If ETs exists and they do, then only Elite that shares their views have the tools, media and resources to be productive to ETs. It is the logical step.
        This is not something i say, but the UFO community and Dr Greer says too. The hidden government hide the technology provided by ETs to have advantage and to let them control and steer according to the ETs views.

        • Omega Z

          OMG, That explains it. You’re waiting for someone to give you everything rather then earn it. good bye.

          • Jarea

            I don’t know what you are talking about, that is not said anywhere and i think nobody want to not be useful. In fact any being needs a purpose, it feels great to be useful. What i say is that having the advanced technologies already discovered by HUMANS, it is not fair to hide it and keep people working in repetitive tasks when they can have the free time to decide what they want to do. This is i think a fair objective that has been shown fundamental in our progress. In Middle age we had not time for culture, thanks to the current technology we have speed up in our conscious development.
            The way you put it “waiting and doing nothing” makes me think that you don’t want to understand the point and that you support the idea of an Elite that controls us with technology and energy, so that we all become so productive in things we are not interested.

        • cashmemorz

          This might be true only if ET’s are anything like humanoids and then to a very high degree. They would have to also share many, if not most, of humans values to enter an agreement with any elites, human or otherwise. The chances of ET’s being that similar to humans is not only astronomically small but they would alslo have be evolved to the similar level as we humans are today. That puts the whole theory so far out of the realm of possibility that it boggles the credulity of any such theory being anywhere close to the truth. Therefore ET’s co-operating with elites is too extreme a low possibility as to be totally ignored. Its the math of probability that is against this theory not that I or anybody want or don’t want it to be true. Want has no effect in this theory.

          • Jarea

            Your comment is understandable because of the much contaminated media that tries to bias you from one very important fact i will explain. It is the hidden true. Quite convenient for ETs that want to be out of the equation.
            The fact is that you assumes that is quite un-probable that they are similar to us if they developed outside earth. and that is TRUE. However, the real way of thinking is not in that direction.

            It is not that they have to look as we are, it is that WE have to look as them.
            I explain, many ancient text, including the bible already got the answer ET gave us. “And God made us in his own image”. We forgot that real scientific explanation because we were not enough evolve to understand what that means.
            ETs, are genetic experts that likes to create super beings whatever the reason (because they can, becuase they need slaves, because they need to experiment gene combinations for themselves, because they want to create life and advance). They came here found the ape, and they changed to his image, providing the Ape a new form, new capabilities, creating the human.

            When we think that humans are not product of evolution but product of genetic/direct alterations and evolution (both) then all the pieces fit well. It explains why this civilization has gone so fast in 10000 years, when the dinosaurs where millions of years and not much came from them.

            Now that you have the explanation of the experiment they do with us. You should understand why they want to not contaminate much the experiment and see how those genetic changes result. You can understand why they must work with elites.

          • cashmemorz

            Still not probable by an astronomical light year

          • Jarea

            You say all this because you haven´t researched. Please, look at the topic seriously and your view will completely change.
            First, the math are pro the existence of inteligence civilizations by thousands if not millions. You only have to see how big is our Universe,how many stars in our galaxy and how many planets there are to agree that thinking the opposite is now going against the maths.
            Second, you first think that our inteligent civilization surged randomly by evolution here. That is what mainstream science says. However, old civilizations tells us from ancient times where we had contact with our ET creators, or so called Gods. They had technology as magic, and they created us. If we go to math again to suppor this point. It has been already calculated that the way we are created is very very unlikely to be done by random nature in one Earth. I mean it makes more sense that we are not the center of the creation and that somehow the live come from elsewhere with meoterites. That is just numbers! it is more probable to count with millions of other planets that bring lives to earth that think that in this one earth everything was generated randomly. Of course, the first life was done so but then it was the meteorites who brought that life here. This is about life. But regarding intelligent life, we have a bigger step. Inteligent life can create more inteligent life and again it makes more sense mathematically, that as we do with rats and other experimental animals, another intelligent beings have a laboratory to experiment with genetics in long term. Our intelligent story has only 10000 years, previously to that we don´t have much traces of intelligence. You must ask yourself, how 10000 years makes so a radical change and millions and millions of years of evolution didn´t do anything. The easiest answer is that we have been hacked/improved by our experimenters.
            Third, again you assume that we know already all. 500 years ago we though the earth was flat (no comment about the disinfo about this topic today). We though that the fastest way to travel was horse, that flying was impossible for heavy objects, travel long distances were imposible… our frontier now is the speed of light. I am sure, that we would find a way to workaround that. A way that is not so difficult that you make think. In fact, we already have the technology from ETs and it is above top secret because it is a tremendous advantage to have this technology before the enemy, so that you can mine and conquer the space before others. Our watchers/creators don´t like that the experiment goes away and think that this must change (disclosure). Either we pass the test/exam and we are allowed to live more or we will destroyed by them, i guess. From my research ETs acknowledge that we are a success although we have to grow in consciousness gradually.
            You only think that many things are impossible because you don´t have all the information. The shock of thinking other way around is so big that disclosure is very difficult. This has been used by ETs through elites so that they are hidden and don´t contaminate the experiment. However, this will change soon as far so many Ufologist say.

          • cashmemorz

            You missed the part where I say the math does not support anthropomorphic -like beings. I never said there is no other life in the galaxy or other places. You are pushing too hard to try and make others into believers. That is all you after. Belief. You say so therefore it must be true and you say so because you believe Greer. Greer says so to get a power trip, pure and simple.You doth complain too much. Try using a more reasoned approach and someone will try to listen, Ihave read about those old civilization. It can mean almost anything besides ET. Science is on too firm a base to allow anything else influencing evolution of all life on Earth. If there is any reason to understand controlled evolution it aint there in any amount that adds up to your argument. There are cave drawings showing intelligence over 30,000 years old. Read up on that before spouting a belief. You and Greer are assuming too much in the vein of ET’s.

            We do understand quantum mechanics and what dark energy is. It is not dark energy for wormholes but a lower than ground state of hydrogen. Devices have been made according to that. See Brilliant Light and Power. I happen to have researched their thesis to the extent I know they are right. They have anti-gravity,indestructible materials and several other devices that mainstream science is trying hard to ignore. BLP are developing it into a flying saucer. Not with any help from any ET.
            So your ignorance of where we are is showing big. Based to the free electron laser made for the USA military using that theory not QWM which is totally wrong. Randell Mills is greater than Einstein and Tesla together. Smoke that in your phony pipe.

      • georgehants

        Omega, you say “Right or wrong doesn’t matter.” you have just justified every despot, dictator, etc. that brain washes society into the most horrific acts such as the holocaust.
        Luckily just as with colour discrimination etc. there are those willing to fight against not justice as society sees it, but justice based on the knowledge of equality, fairness etc. that we all posses, although many do their best to avoid it.

        • Omega Z

          “Right or wrong doesn’t matter.” is in the context of observation of which little can be done about it as it is the will of the community. It merely follows what you propose. The individual is obligated to give what he creates to the masses. It’s what you call fairness.

          Note that most dictators come to power promising to share the wealth and make the system more fair. Even should such person mean what they say, the quickly learn there is actually little to share. Wealth is mostly an illusion.

          • georgehants

            Morning Omega, all agreed, so it is up to us to change things.
            Regarding ” Wealth is mostly an illusion” no, it is True that all money of capitalism is a complete illusion based on nothing, but once using that system wealth means insane wealth and advantage for some, middle chances for some and death and suffering for many more.
            As with your above it is up to us to be aware of establishment brain-washing and lies etc. just as with, the dictators etc. and change things.
            I think that is logical.

  • Carl Wilson

    Much thanks, interesting site.

  • Jarea

    I don’t know why the letter of Woolsey should prove anything. An exCIA director should also be able to lie for national security. In fact, the letter recognize that they had a dinner, and the real question is what is the exCIA director doing with an Ufologist?.

    Besides, Woolsey, has shown for me ZERO moral. You only have to hear him saying that Edward Snowden (for me another hero of human rights,) should be hanged for treason. Sorry, but Woolsey ignore the international law that is behind Snowden. International law says any citizen in the world must disobey country laws if they go against the human rights. This international law was created to avoid things like what happened in WW2.
    Here you have
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlG3Cnp6CX4
    saying he would prefer to hang him by the neck!. He has also his preferences on how the people should die!
    Pure love!

  • matthew

    This might be true only if ET’s are anything like humanoids and then to a very high degree. They would have to also share many, if not most, of humans values to enter an agreement with any elites, human or otherwise. The chances of ET’s being that similar to humans is not only astronomically small but they would also have to be evolved to the similar level as we humans are today. There would be other similarities required, but just these are necessary to make it minimally workable. That puts the whole theory so far out of the realm of possibility that it boggles the credulity of any such theory being anywhere close to the truth. Therefore ET’s co-operating with elites is too extreme a low possibility as to be totally ignored. Its the math of probability that is against this theory not that I or anybody want or don’t want it to be true. Want has no effect in this theory.

    • cashmemorz

      Why is matthew repeating my comment, word for word, like it was copied? Emulation is supposedly the height of respect or just like my wording….

  • Omega Z

    Because- Steven Greer in the topic…

  • Bob Greenyer

    Steven Greer, whatever you think of him or his wider message, he has an audience of 100s millions and access to politicians and high level government and military personnel. That he is talking about Rossi is huge, this will bring far greater awareness to our small community.

    The topic was specifically his comments on Rossi, however, contributions to the article drifted.

    • MasterBlaster7

      He sounds like a compete nutter to me. I’ll take my words back though if the men in black show up and disappear Rossi…but I’m not super worried.

      We all know we have an unfolding black swan here. We worried about the men in black, we worried about powerful oil interests; However, the only boogeymen we have seen so far is complete a-hole business men making stupid stupid…stupid moves.

  • georgehants

    CWatters, they are highly connected by the Fact that both are debunked and denied by opinion alone, by our uneducated scientific establishment and many other unthinking people.
    Giving other examples of such incompetent activity is educational.

  • King of Sweden

    We are not discussing ET’s, we are discussing disclosure.

  • Chris

    If this site is supposed to provide evidence that Dr. Greer should be ignored, or cause some ‘penny to drop’, it doesn’t do a very good job. Poorly-cobbled together ad hominem attacks and assumptions aren’t really evidence of any allegation of fraud.

    The Woolsey letter doesn’t tell us anything.

    What is significant about Dr. Greer is the many government officials, ex-military and even astronauts (!) who have worked with Greer by going on the record via his ‘ Sirius Disclosure Project’ (check it out – you can watch their video testimonies, including NASA astronaut Gordon Cooper on YouTube) to confirm via their own accounts much of what Greer is saying. We don’t have to agree with Greer, or like him, to see this as a massive endorsement of the idea that what he is saying is true…