Further Examination of the LION 2 Reactor Suggests Unusual Heating (MFMP Video)

Bob Greenyer has posted a new video where he cracks open the alumina foam housing from the Looking for Heat Model T test bed in which part of the LION 2 reactor has been stuck (LION had sent it to Bob), and carries out a post-mortem.

In the first part of the video Bob shows that some loose material that comes out of the reactor hole, and he notes that there is iron in the Kanthal wire that was used as a heating element in the Model T. He then goes on the crack open the foam to get a look at the remainder of the LION 2 reactor.

What he reveals is something that looks very different to the control tubes that Alan Smith has been testing on this week. Here are a couple of screenshots of one side of the reactor remains where it looks like the alumina foam has melted onto the reactor:

This shows the other side where the melting has not occurred:

According to this company’s website, the melting point of foamed alumina oxide is 2,072° C (3,762° F). Remember that LION himself, who did this test, stated that this reactor continued to self-sustain at temperatures in the region of 1000 C for about 2 days with the power turned off, but unfortunately we don’t have any detailed data about this event. It will be interesting to see how Alan Smith’s testing of a fueled reactor goes.

The full video of Bob’s excavation is below.

UPDATE (February 15, 2018) I thought I would add what I thought was a very helpful analysis by Russ George from the comments below:

Melting Miasma – The intact Kanthal wire is a witness to the temperature not reaching the melting point of kanthal which is listed as being 1500 C. The alumina block melts above 2000 C, the quartz melts at just under 1700 C. So if the quartz melted likely the kanthal which was in contact with the quartz might be expected to melt, not seen. Surely the alumina foam which was outside of the quartz melting at 2000 C would not ‘melt’ without the intervening kanthal showing melting which would occur at 1500 C. If during the oxidation of the copper that is clearly apparent, that very hot copper oxidation process was capable of perhaps breaking the quartz and that copper oxide invaded the surrounding materials it might well have bonding with all. Copper oxide melts at 1326 C. Copper melts at 1085 C. Nickel melts at 1455 C, don’t forget the tiny 2.5 mm diameter 10 micron thick nickel pads with the diamonds attached to them that are the purported fuel are clearly seen and did NOT melt. Nor did the stainless steel bolt that plugged the reactor tube, stainless steels melt between 1400-1500 C depending on the alloy.

All theses known materials and melting points bear witness to many temperatures that might have been reached in the hot ‘reaction’ zone. In the ‘dummy’ test runs conducted at Alan’s, the maker of the tube furnace test bed, at 1000 C. in these dummy runs without any anomalous fuels, aka the nickel diamond discs, the aggressive hot chemistry of the copper oxide and is very clearly seen. It has fused/bonded itself to the quartz for example. The silver foil that underlaid the copper wire winding at the distal end has a melting point 961 C, is apparent this temperature was reached as the silver appears to have moved by capillary action into the copper/copper oxide material and also appears to have been an effective brazing metal on the quartz, something it is known to do in common practice when making metal seals on quartz lab wear. All, or almost all, the copper was converted to copper oxide at 1000 C, this was not the case in a duplicate test at 800 C where considerable of the copper wire remained as metal though it was oxidized on the surface. The replication with power and thermal data may tell the tale, patience is going to be required before we might make sense of this miasma. Hopefully no one reports seeing the ‘face of Jesus’ in the miasma before the replication and more extensive data is in hand, that would really confuse matters.

  • Bob Greenyer

    LION – 1080p of cracking out core end – far higher quality download of streamed video

    https://goo.gl/Wer3xi

    LION – Fuel Area Tube Section Detail, extreme close up

    https://youtu.be/3L–ZbLKnXA

    LION – 7GB of raw macro photographs from core fuel area

    https://goo.gl/5nJV4Q

  • Brokeeper

    All very interesting, Bob. I was wondering if it would be prudent to pass a paper of non-magnetized iron filings across the core before applying a magnet to it to determine if any residual magnetism was left from its run. The magnet itself may magnetize it some.

  • Steve H

    As opposed to the melting of Alumina Oxide.
    Is it feasible to consider that an amalgam of liquid metal has flowed by gravity to the bottom of the tube and become entangled with the porous structure. Breaking it open is showing the entangled remnants of Alumina in the blob of solidified metal.

    • Alan Smith

      It is feasible. But where would it have come from? The only metal between the outer wall of the Quartz and the inner wall of the foamed alumina brick is the 0.9mm Kanthal wire element. And Kanthal melta at 1450C (from memory).so still pretty damn hot and hotter than a 36VDC PSU can get it without some serious help.

      • Steve H

        Thanks for the feedback Alan.
        Unusual and extreme temperature noted.

  • Alan Smith

    I think (as Bob also realises) the most obvious explanation for the magnetic particles is that they are melted fragments of the Ni/Fe/Al Kanthal heating wire. But I have not seen anything like the seriously damaged alumina bricks in any of the several hundred experiments performed by LFH so seriously altered by what seems to be unprecedented levels of heat.

    • LION

      Hi Alan,
      thanks for your honest assessment and revealing statement. Could you please say what the melting point of this
      Kanthal heating wire is.

      Looking forward to meeting you later.

      Thanks again for all you have done for the test protocols in recient days, nobody would have paid any attention to it if I had done it. The fact that it has been done by your good self, and nobody knows your equipment better than you do. It sets a standard that is believable, a yard stick against which future tests can be reliably measured. This is essential to future progress.
      BOB and MFMP and LFH are both doing sterling work, many thanks to both Teams
      A BIG THANK YOU to all of you who have also played your part by contributing to MFMP.
      THE EVIDENCE SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.

      • Alan Smith

        Hi Neil.

        This is serious work, and demands serious attention, which is what we are all determined to give it. And honour and a priviledge to be part of this important adventure.

        Kanthal FeCrAl alloy has a melting point of 1,500 °C (2,730 °F).

        When we meet tonight I will bring you the same reactor that I have been doing these control runs in. It has been closely calibrated, and so gives an extra good base line for future experiments TAs well as a PID and more tubes as you requested. Looking forward to it!.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Lion/Neil,

        If I may ask how many fuel discs did you place inside the Lion 1 and Lion 2 cores?

        Where the fuel discs secured to each other in some way? If so how?

        The distance between the closed end of the alumina tube and the end of the bolt is fairly large. Where and how did you position the fuel discs in that space and how did you stop them from moving around?

        What is the thin white sheet material you rolled into a tube and placed inside the quartz tube to seperated it from the copper wire wrapped Lion 2 fuel tube? What was it’s purpose?

        Thanks in advance for your kind reply.

        • roseland67

          48,

          How goes your project with client that wants multiple Ecats?

          Is there still interest?
          Does your customer still have need?
          Any kind of time frame from Rossi?

        • LION

          Hi Engineer48,
          ‘What is the thin white sheet material you rolled into a tube and placed inside the quartz tube to seperated it from the copper wire wrapped Lion 2 fuel tube? What was it’s purpose?’

          NO such thing was done.

          All your other questions will be answered at the time of replication by BOB and ALAN and doubtless many others who will run the Test.
          I of course will not be present as this is an Independent Test. I am simply supplying an identical LION 2 Tube.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Lion,

            Thanks for your reply. Most appreciated.

            I’m puzzled why Bob recovered discs that appear to not be thermally challanged and by the melted blob inside the fuel tube.

            Can you explain why there is a melted blob inside the fuel tube and recovered unmelted discs?

            What is their thermal history? Why is it apparently different?

            Thanks in advance for your replies.

    • Bruce__H

      The temperatures associated with the blob in the brick can’t be all that high because the Kanthal wire in this region looks completely intact to me. Or, at least, if the temperatures are high they must be extremely brief and localized.

      Could the brick material have been attacked chemically by some substance pouring down from the region of the quartz tube? What the structure of the blob reminds me of is when you pour acetone on rigid foam.

      • Alan Smith

        Hi Bruce. A good thought, but hard to imagine what chemical would be required that would not (if applied hot) require the evacuation of everybody in the vincinity, or would be undetectable now, wether by smell or discolouration of the Alimina, which remains creamy white. Alumina in all its forms is an incredibly stable dielectric compound which it is why it is used in high temperature corrosive and high voltage applications.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Did you use exactly the same copper wire (around the reactor tube) as Lion? I am thinking of the insulation material as a possible source of aggressive gases.

      • Alan Smith

        yes- exactly. From a different source, but the same spec.

  • Alan Smith

    For comparison purposes, here is the inside of the control reactor, which incliding calibration has been operated at temperatures exceeding 700C for 70 hours, and at 1000C for 48 hours. The RH quartz tube (used for the LION control experiments has been replaced, but the equally clean and unmarked tube on the RHS has been in place throughout, as have the heater coils. The coils and the quartz are not stuck to each other, or the alumina, which apart from the crack is undamaged.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/69a24e9a9df0495de974f1f905fae26ab229669ef51c8a43fd8b3b3c43695b6f.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/20ed2ae9ccfe23701a74eb20e144f4d727e4e9644e515604863c4fac53a6652e.jpg

  • Melting Miasma – The intact Kanthal wire is a witness to the temperature not reaching the melting point of kanthal which is listed as being 1500 C. The alumina block melts above 2000 C, the quartz melts at just under 1700 C. So if the quartz melted likely the kanthal which was in contact with the quartz might be expected to melt, not seen. Surely the alumina foam which was outside of the quartz melting at 2000 C would not ‘melt’ without the intervening kanthal showing melting which would occur at 1500 C. If during the oxidation of the copper that is clearly apparent, that very hot copper oxidation process was capable of perhaps breaking the quartz and that copper oxide invaded the surrounding materials it might well have bonding with all. Copper oxide melts at 1326 C. Copper melts at 1085 C. Nickel melts at 1455 C, don’t forget the tiny 2.5 mm diameter 10 micron thick nickel pads with the diamonds attached to them that are the purported fuel are clearly seen and did NOT melt. Nor did the stainless steel bolt that plugged the reactor tube, stainless steels melt between 1400-1500 C depending on the alloy.

    All theses known materials and melting points bear witness to many temperatures that might have been reached in the hot ‘reaction’ zone. In the ‘dummy’ test runs conducted at Alan’s, the maker of the tube furnace test bed, at 1000 C. in these dummy runs without any anomalous fuels, aka the nickel diamond discs, the aggressive hot chemistry of the copper oxide and is very clearly seen. It has fused/bonded itself to the quartz for example. The silver foil that underlaid the copper wire winding at the distal end has a melting point 961 C, is apparent this temperature was reached as the silver appears to have moved by capillary action into the copper/copper oxide material and also appears to have been an effective brazing metal on the quartz, something it is known to do in common practice when making metal seals on quartz lab wear. All, or almost all, the copper was converted to copper oxide at 1000 C, this was not the case in a duplicate test at 800 C where considerable of the copper wire remained as metal though it was oxidized on the surface. The replication with power and thermal data may tell the tale, patience is going to be required before we might make sense of this miasma. Hopefully no one reports seeing the ‘face of Jesus’ in the miasma before the replication and more extensive data is in hand, that would really confuse matters.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Factors that can damage Kanthal wire:

      http://www.furnace-eng.co.nz/Troubleshooting_Elements.htm

    • Anon2012_2014

      We have available as reactants

      Cu
      NO2
      O2
      traces of H2O (water vapor)
      traces of CO2
      Al2O3
      SiO

      Pardon my physical chemistry, but are there chemical reactions (i.e. reduction, redox) that release excess heat and can produce melted blobs, i.e.
      Si3N4
      SiO2
      SiAlON

      I think that every possible one of these reactions needs to be explored thermodynamically (by someone who knows their physical chemistry) to rule out these reaction. If one or more of them is favorable, a calculation of the excess heat released and a list of the likely chemical residuals should be developed so that we may analyze the reactor residue for such compounds.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Anon,

        Nicely done.

        • Anon2012_2014

          I could figure this out but would take a week. Someone who just took or does physical chemistry for a living should be able to run thru the laundry list of reactions in a few hours… anyone here.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Anon,

            Instead of chasing patterns in ancient Chinese Lion statues how about focusing on real world LENR experimental data?

            Like this that links excess heat to 4He generation?

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8e131591fa2ca1a5fbf8256216d98d0e8136888578e6aa594e2cb1f8d57af8ad.png

            Sure this is boring data generated by 1,500 man years of blood, sweat and tears real world experimental data.

            Please Bob if you really have something, explain how this occurs?

            Show the energy exchange relations that make this happen. Show the maths.

            Words can easily deceive. So can maths but it is much harder.

          • Anon2012_2014

            Engineer — we have all see this type of data. What we need is large power (>20 watts) measurable data that has chemistry or measurement error ruled out. Low power is subject to experimental measurement error. I think project LION has a good shot of doing this as the power involved to heat to melting the components is substantial (likely in excess of 100 watts if not more), and if sustained for 2+ days the energy of 17 MJ is equivalent to burning about 0.4 kg of hydrocarbon. I think we can measure if 0.4 kg of something chemically converted to something else in this experiment without measurement error, thereby “putting to bed” the null hypothesis and thus proving that something non-chemical which we can call “LENR” for want of complete understanding is responsible here. That is revolutionary. Let the physics catch up with the empirically proven data later.

      • Axil Axil

        don’t forget the production of 36000 joules of electric power.

      • Axil Axil

        What is added to the baseline non reactive reactor configuration is a dozen treated diadisks.

        Sure, all that matter did react when exposed to the diadisks.

        • Anon2012_2014

          I want to eliminate the chemical hypothesis.

  • Bruce__H

    What was the state of the alumina foam for LION 1? I don’t recall anything about it.

    Or is the Model T test unit that Bob breaks apart here the same one that was used for LION 1? And if it was … which side of the Model T was used for the active generator core in LION 1 … the same one as for LION 2?

  • georgehants

    A very good report page that may help to bring Bob’s “O” day into focus.
    Thank goodness for the Quantum guys who are not afraid to move beyond the steam engine, hot fusion and nuclear weapons.
    ————
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    https://www.worldsciencefestival.com/videos/quantum-reality-space-time-entanglement/

  • Bruce__H

    I think it is noteworthy that the dark blob Bob has revealed here has formed in the part of the Model T reactor that lies vertically underneath the LION generator. If this blob has formed as a direct result of the working of radiation (or LENR floating torroids or whatever) on the alumina foam of the Model T then I would expect there to be an equal chance of this happening above, below, or to the side of the LION generator. The fact that it is the alumina brick vertically below the generator suggests to me that this happened because something or other molten or corrosive has flowed from the region of the generator itself down into the brick. Something here has flowed under the influence of gravity

    Whatever was flowing, it didn’t come from inside the LION generator because the diamond pads and such seemed unencumbered by dark flowy stuff. Could it be copper? It will be interesting to see what is between the quartz sleeve and the blob.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Agreed – this seems to rule out the ‚radiation hypothesis’. BTW molten copper and copper oxide can apparently attack alumina (see the link below about Kanthal wires, whose protective surface layer consists mainly of Al2O3). The question is how the material could pass through the quartz tube. Further ‘forensic’ investigation might help to clarify that.

      • Axil Axil

        Ball lightning has be observed to pass through glass using two mechanisms. It can either pass through glass without affecting the glass or it can produce a small hole in the glass that it then follows through the glass.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Yes, but ball lightning does not follow gravity as consequently as it seems to have happened here.

          • Axil Axil

            The active LENR agent can pole a hole in a wall and pass through. We have seen in the examples of strange radiation (aka the rabbit tracks) include holes punched through the matter that this LENR active agent traverses.

            I beleive that this LENR active agent is the metallic hydrogen molecule that is produced during the month of deutrium soaking of the diadisks.

            This stuff is matter and is know to stay contained under the influence of gravity in a container if it is restrained from climbing out because of superfluidity.

            .

      • Engineer48

        Hi Andreas,

        Suggest the Cu oxide volume missing from the rounded end of the alumina tube flowed through a crack in the quartz tube and into the foamed alumina.

        • Axil Axil

          To what effect?

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            Heat, Cu oxidation, thermal expansion, crack, gravity, etc to name a few effects.

            No balls of plasma burning holes in quartz tubes, just chemistry, heat and physics.

          • Axil Axil

            How did the Cu produce the triangular hole and the co-located cavity in the alumina insulation?

        • Stephen

          This does seem consistent with Russ George’s analysis and I agree does seem the most likely cause of the material there. How ever the structures there particularly the apparent holes where we would expect the alumina to be are a bit confusing.

          As I see it would take too high temperatures to burn away the alumina there. So this leaves either a chemical processes or shocks or pressure destroying the integrity of the Aluminium foam or something else.

          A Chemical processes normally needs to be very reactive to react with the alumina… And I think most residues from that kind of reaction are more like white salts than the darker residue we seem to see. Unless they are contaminated with other metals. Is there a chemical process that could do this here that you know of? And if so where do the acids or bases come from?

          Shocks might also be possible but the holes look quite regular.. Could something like this account for the structures?

          I have a feeling you would know better than me about this.

    • Stephen

      I agree it does look like some fluid under gravity plays some role. It’s hard to imagine what is liquid under nominal heating there. I was wondering if silver could have seeped through some crack and reacted with something there. Could that produce material like this?

      But it’s more than that. Some of those holes seem to go through where the alumina was if I’m seeing right. Which really indicates the alumina those locations has either melted away by some strange process, or it has dissolved in something.

      Does anyone know what could dissolve alumina in the nominal expected temperature ranges? Would it require some kind of acid? Or something?

      • Andreas Moraitis

        You need a reducing agent. See the mentioned link.

        • Stephen

          Would this also stack the alumina as well as the Kanthal wire?

          Maybe I got the wrong link? But I suppose it would need to be something like this?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            If the material becomes conductive by temperature and contaminants, maybe electrolysis would boost its decomposition. But yes, the best way to find it out would be making some tests.

          • causal observer

            Alan Smith comments below on the possibility of a chemical reaction affecting the alumina.

  • Bob Greenyer

    My point was about the completely opaque quartz surrounding the clear pink area – there are other features like this in other parts of the quartz I have highlighted in other videos, like the yellow one or the milky white one on the outside of the quartz topped and bottomed by a silvery substance.

    This is not melting at the normal temperature, it is related to the materials stability as an atom and its conductivity.

    Some people are talking about, quite reasonably, a gravity enhanced process. I am more interested in the bit above where gravity is not helping and you find magnetic spheres embedded into the quartz and attached to each other on the OUTSIDE of the quartz. We are not talking gaseous diffusion, this is another process that is causing all theses effects – they are all related.

    • Stephen

      Hi Bob

      did the rose quartz area have some kind of white material on the inside of it? I’m curious what that is and if that surface could have blocked the diffusion in that area? Or did it just apear like that on the video but it is actually clear right through?

      Is there any sign of a fracture between the dark area and the rose area?

      • Bob Greenyer

        There was a perfect fracture around the whole feature. Yes there was a white layer on the iside.

        Of course, it is not a mystery really to me why it happened, it will be obvious after ‘O Day’ – look for similar shapes in other images I have posted – this is a SIGNATURE of the effect.

        Got a bit exhausted working on this last night till about 4.30 am – so will go to sleep now and make up some more HDR images in the morning – lots to learn from them.

        • Axil Axil

          The O day may need to be expanded to an O month.

          If the amount of material expands beyond all control, do you have a plan to segment the presentation via logical breakpoints?

          If you feed some members of your audience too much data, they may get intellectual indigestion.

          • Bob Greenyer

            In a way it is, to those paying attention – It is an all or nothing thing, and it will be all (abbreviated). What I am trying to do with the questions and pointers is to get people to flexibly read around the topics and so they will have a contextual framework to absorb what it all means.

        • Stephen

          Yes I did think the shape was interesting too.

  • Axil Axil

    What the analysis of russ george might support is a feature of the LENR reaction that was hinted at during the LUGANO test; that is, the movement of matter independent of the temperature of that matter.

    This mysterious migration of matter is almost identical to what happened to the Lugano pure NI62 100 micron particle.

    The only way that the Ni62 particle could have been produced is if trillions of atoms of various isotopes of nickel were all transmuted to Ni62 in one instantaneous operation.

    The nickel particles in the Lugano fuel was determined to be a mix of nickel isotopes that followed the expected isotopic mix that is natural for nickel.

    But in the ash of the lugano experiment, a huge particle of pure Ni62 formed even though the temperature of the core never met or exceeded the melting point of nickel.

    The only answer that people gave for this strange result was that Rossi must have added that particle into the ash somehow. The formation of such a particle was just impossible to explain.

    But what Bob’s inspection of these LION and especially the Hutchison material shows is movement of matter irrespective of its temperature.

    • Bob Greenyer

      It does transmute matter on mass, and it can be guided.

  • Axil Axil

    How gravity might affect the location of the “melted alumina insulation”.

    The diadisks that fuels the LION reactor has not melted or been transformed so the LENR reaction in question is not centered on these disks.

    But there is a large triangular hole penetrating the melted alumina zone. What might have occurred is the movement of the LENR active agent which has acted under the influence of gravity and settled in the alumina insulation below the diadisks. This LENR agent was able to move from the diadisks, penetrate the alumina and quartz containment and become lodged in the alumina insulation. The LENR active agent then produced the triangular hole and collocated cavity. The LENR active agent also affected the insulation that surrounded the capacity.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Axil

      It is born in the core core ( I call this the ovary ) and is small enough to penetrate the alumina in a novel way.

      It is massively captured into the copper, where it grows, using the two main types of energy forms available ++ etc to become self sustaining. At this point it ideally should be harvested up to a point before getting too big or being driven again.

      It disrupts material in a specific way that can manifest as liquification below melting point, a process that is dependent on the stability of the atom type it is in – Hutchison proved this since 1979 (Fe is very difficult to effect, Aluminium, Silver and Copper easy with the latter two less susceptible to transmutation), but it is actually more destructive than just simply melting in a purely structural sense because it can mix things together at an atomic level ignoring normal chemistry rules – people need to discard chemical process during the active agents passage through and in a material.

      A large area of Quartz and Alumina has ‘disappeared’ – this is what this does, I saw it in a small way in Moscow in early 2015. I have tried to message for the last year that this technology needs new approaches to containment, you cannot think in terms of temperatures, you must think in terms of impedance changes and atomic susceptibility to transmutation – you CANNOT think in terms of ceramics – the active agent will separate Oxygen from Silicon and Aluminium as if they were separate stock piles and eat them for breakfast. This goes for all HT ceramics. seperation, confinement and control are very important – flourine or chlorine based polymers may be effect due to the quenching effects of these elements.

      56Fe, 62Ni are good, as are deliberate measures to mitigate build up and fractal clustering of the active agent through use of light elements and continual washdown and draining, in more ways than one! The flow through of water in near direct contact with the core is one reason the ECCO is, inadvertently, such a good design.

      If you let it get too big, Fe and Ni will get churned and transmuted also with impunity.

      • Axil Axil

        As a speculation, I beleive that the LENR active agent has left hanged chirality. A reflector of that type of matter/energy might be used as a containment.

        Boron nitride, mica, or graphite might be materials that can contain this left handed chiral LENR reactant since in has a hexagonal crystal structure now to be chirality selective.

        I also beleive that Rossi is using Boron nitride for LENR containment. Experimentation is required to understand this concept better.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Parkhomov used Boron Nitride in one of his most successful reactors – we have a sample but waiting until we can get access to the right equipment to test it.

          I also suggested the use of Boron Nitride in March 2014 due its obvious desirable properties.

          • Stephen

            Boron Nitride is an amazing material. It was my favourite, until you mentioned the use of carbon and diamonds here.

            I never thought of the chirality aspect though… Yet another amazing property of this stuff.

      • Axil Axil

        Why do I assume that the LENR agent has left handed chirality…

        LeClair has generated a LENR active agent, the water crystal, which is composed of water under high compression, in other words, metalic water.

        Water is left handed chiral. Therefore, the water crystal and all other LENR active agents involving metalization might be left handed.

      • Stephen

        Hmm normally when we think of transferring charges or particles we are considering physical objects such as ions and electrons which in some sense carry with them an electric field but not a magnetic one.

        If we wanted to transfer a magnetic “object” it would need these charges to move in a loop and that loop to move and carry the magnetic field. I wonder if this is the kind of object you mean?

        Aluminium and Copper are not magnetic but are influenced by magnetism through the Lenz effect, effectively magnets moving towards and away from those metals sets up turbulence effects in the electrons in that material that reacts in a magnetic way to in opposition the motion of the external magnet. Could such an effect be strong enough to disrupt the bonds in these materials I wonder? Or if it would require a more direct effect of the objects interaction on individual atoms electron orbitals. Such as anion capture.

        I wonder if this kind of magnetic object could interact with those or other materials and even pass through it in some kind of virtual construct way?

        I’m not sure if I have the transmutation part of it yet or the generation part sussed yet but I wonder if these thoughts are part of your concept? Or if it is something else.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Extreme magnetism plays a role.

          It is much more than that – but beautifully elegant.

  • Axil Axil

    If the LENR reaction is initiated by a mobile agent, and that agent can be confined, then a way to optimize the LENR reaction is to contain that agent so that the LENR reaction is not diminished by the leaking and loss of these LENR units of that agent to the environment outside the reactor.

    One experimental variant that might be interesting to try is to replace the alumina and/or the quartz tubes with a boron nitride or graphite tube of the appropriate size to see if this improves the performance of the LION experiment. This improvement might be produced by increased confinement and the associated increase of the LENR active agent. This improved reaction behavior will be demonstrated by the cessation of the reactor meltdown such as witnessed by the transmutation in the containment tube and the alumina insulation.

    https://4.imimg.com/data4/KE/AU/MY-1495753/hot-pressed-boron-nitride-tubes-and-plates-by-innovative-500×500.jpg

  • Axil Axil

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/5228-me356-photos-of-aura-control-unit/?postID=71890#post71890

    This post from ME356 shows how the LENR active agent contained in his processed fuel can exit that fuel and produce transmutation in the carbon SEM container.

    This supports the concept that the LENR active agent can exit its host fuel container, act under the influence of gravity, and fall to a substrate where it can travel and then produce transmutation of elements as it moves.

  • Axil Axil

    We have seen in the LION SEM pictures of holes that are produced in the substrate that are large on the nanoscale. Those holes show a disintegration of millions of atoms. As the LENR active agent moves across a substrate, it does not stop, it punches a hole in nanoseconds and then hops on.

    One thing to look for in observing LENR actions is to be sensitive to identical or single reactions: transmutation or disintegration that involve millions of atoms at one shot.

    This single group type reaction may involve entanglement of many atoms that react as one.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Axil,

      Or maybe just chemical effects?

      • Axil Axil

        Such holes and not seen in the control runs without diadisks. This excludes chemical action.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Axil,

          Wishful thinking it is not chemistry.

          Consider the Lion 2 discs show no signs of heating, yet in the Lion 2 alumina core is a melted blob of something which Lion can’t explain.

          Suggest that blob should be SEM/EDS target #1!!

  • georgehants

    Morning Bob, lots of stuff for the materialists to chew over, any chance of a hint as to how consciousness is connected or must that wait for “O” day

    • Bob Greenyer

      Subspace

      • georgehants

        Any effect that can be demonstrated?

        • Bob Greenyer

          That will become clear.

          • georgehants

            Can’t wait, ha.

  • Stephen

    Hi Bob,

    Those flower patterns have been nudging me for a while now. Strangely familiar some how.

    But now I have it I think:

    They are Hexupoles!

    Hexupoles are basically similar to quadruples or other multipoles but with six poles.

    There are two kinds of Hexupoles electric ones with electric fields and magnetic ones with magnetic fields:

    They are used for mass spectrometry and synchrotrons and ion beam containment and focusing.

    They are also used in some cases as a magnetic trap to allow the internal characteristic of ions etc to manifest with out out side disturbances.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrupole

    The flower pattern you see looks like an electric Hexupole to me.

    And it’s amazing that nature self generates this from a ionized fluid!

    But it’s more than that.

    The electric hexupole carries the magnetic field too like in a flux loop. Where these pass into a medium with higher electric density I suppose this linens would converge there. Could they then generate a magnetic hexupole at that point of convergence?

    Are the triangles you see related to something like that?

    If if the electrical hexupole is on the surface or between two dissimilar materials could the six loops be different in size in those different media…. a bit like Artefacts earlier images of vortexes in Bose condensates and liquid Helium? If so this could this lead to the golden spiral effect especially if it could spawn vortexes at larger vortexes at or child vortexes at each surface transition.

    Could carbon or other hexagonal lattices have some hexupole effect from both the nuclei and the bound electrons? Especially in a strong electric or magnetic field Is this what relates use of carbon and the association with the flower of life diagram?

    If so could we have a similar quadrupole effect from a cubic lattice or does it need a hexupole arrangement.? Hexupole does seem more stable from a tessellated point of view though.

    • Stephen

      Interestingly if I understood Carl Oscar Gullström later ideas right he also needed a quadrupole of some kind in the material to allow the sigma meson to have its long field effect. Carl is very smart with regard the standard model looking at these mesons if carriers of and resonances of state. I don’t think they had a good explanation for the quadrupole though just gaps in a lattice I think.

      Perhaps your and his ideas are not far apart from each other but from a different perspective. He is just looking from standard model view point out. And looking at that detail in a similar way we may QM look at an atom nucleus or electron orbital structure.

      But maybe conceptually you have stumbled upon what needs to be applied externally, how he behavior is expressed from a different method but maybe even more what underlies the standard model. If you have found a common canceptual cause for all that then that’s very very impressive.

    • Bob Greenyer

      The triangles are related to magnetic confinement

      • Engineer48

        Hi Bob,

        The triangles are related to chemically generated crystalline structures.

        • Bob Greenyer

          eventually.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            Post the reactions and the energy equations.

          • Bob Greenyer

            It is simpler and more beautiful than that.

            You keep sounding like my master – you are not and practically all your contributions have no value, sad really I thought better of you.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            Either post the reaction and energy equations or you have nothing to offer.

            Simple as that.

    • artefact

      Searching for Hexapoles I found the below image that reminds me of the “flower” with the rings in the middle.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3f4e8754f6dd8770c8dafaabc69fc04cbb7085c5d876b520a41eef1515ba9ce3.jpg

      (Ref: http://jin.ece.illinois.edu/
      Hexapole Mode in a Photonic Crystal Cavity)

  • Bob Greenyer

    O Day is coming…

    Why is this image of LIONs disrupted foamed alumina insulation, taken 15 Feb 2018, the most important and telling to date…

    Download 32 bit per RGB channel version here
    https://goo.gl/sCZLHe

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1519f68da23f3a5a77c512dbaae6824edad16ed13c6959d11239290dcc000505.jpg

    • Andreas Moraitis

      How does that look in 3D? Any signs that there is a cone? Or are these structures basically flat?

      • Bob Greenyer

        It is part of 3D Fractal structure

        Revisit flower of life. What does it encode?

        What is stable?

        • Andreas Moraitis

          To me, the surface structure looks similar to the surrounding porous alumina. I guess that the gray stuff might be Al that results from reduction.

    • Frost*

      Could the triangle effect be caused by a current flowing between three points in the alumina?

      http://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.apsusc.2010.07.076

    • Engineer48

      Hi Bob,

      And this relates to the vast experimental data linking 4He generation to the generation of excess heat how?

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8e131591fa2ca1a5fbf8256216d98d0e8136888578e6aa594e2cb1f8d57af8ad.png

    • Axil Axil

      A Hexagonal crystal projects the triangular shaped flux tube. Half the hexagon projects the north pole and the other half of the hexagon projects the south pole.

      One pole has left handed chirality and the other has right handed chirality.

      For and explanation see 14:00 in

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46h44d3yrZQ&t=25s

  • Engineer48

    Here is real world experimental data linking the amount of excess heat generated to the amount of 4He generated.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8e131591fa2ca1a5fbf8256216d98d0e8136888578e6aa594e2cb1f8d57af8ad.png

    No patttern recognition necessary. Just hard nose physical experimental data requiring human blood, sweat and tears.

    If O Day fails to explain this relationship, then it has no value toward advancing understanding of the experimental data.

    • Stephen

      Hi E48,

      I really think Bob knows this. He has been living and breathing this for years now. And he starts from MFMP.

      Just as you know very well too that LENR is apparently much more than deuteron fusion, and needs to explain nucleon changes, rearrangement or fusion in much heavier nuclei taking into account limitations of resonance and conservation of state constraints that are not trivial with simple photon or particle collisions even if we ignore the higher Coulomb barriers in heavy elements.

      Bob thinks he has an explanation and needs to prepare the ground for that. Let’s see what he comes up with.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Stephen,

        Bob needs to post the reactions and the energy transfer equations.

        Posting images of patterns means nothing.

        Where are the reaction and energy exchange equations?

        • Stephen

          I would like to see that too It might be more than that though.

          If he is able to show something that can be explained mathematically I will be happy.

          But the concept could be graspable even if the maths is incredibly hard.

          I have no idea if this is involved but I would be pretty daunted at trying to find the magnetohydrodynamics equations to explain the propagation of plasma loop for example through media and especially its interaction with ionized matter. But I could understand it if it was explained well and leave it to a super smart mathematician to express it mathematically.

          Hopefully the maths is a bit more simple though.

          If Bob can do that maths it would be something though.

          And I hope he can at least explain the LENR aspects of this for us like that. Even if it’s conceptualy obvious explanation the formula of that part could make it a slam dunk. But it’s up to him and I understand if. He wants to stop at the concept level.

          Many great thinkers have had an idea. But in the end did the hard work of the maths in the vigorous mathematical proof. But some had a lot of help with that part.

        • Axil Axil

          Holmlid has done all this in his last paper. If you are interested see Holmlid.

    • Bob Greenyer

      If one keeps looking in the same box, it is not surprising the content does not change.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Bob,

        Show the reactions and the equations.

  • Engineer48

    Big question:

    Why is there very considerable thermal damage in Lion 2 to everything but the fuel discs?

    Something is not right.

    • Bob Greenyer

      I have explained it to axil – in other answer

  • Bob Greenyer

    After I get back from a chore – the next image I will share is simply amazing and it relates TOTALLY to a feature in the ‘Triangle’ picture.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Bob,

      Please stop with the chemical reaction images.

      Post the nuclear reactions and their energy exchange equations

      • Bob Greenyer

        Please stop thinking you can order me about.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Bob,

          Not ordering you about.

          Just asking you to provide reaction and energy equations to support your claims.

          • Bob Greenyer

            And what are my claims?

  • Bob Greenyer

    ‘Jewel Inside’

    Where can you see the mirror of this shape in the ‘Triangle’ image?

    What is in the corner?

    What does it mean?

    Download 32 bit per RGB channel version here
    https://goo.gl/drQM8Q

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c737c9e8333b3d91ec676148e7742c53792cd08b7071e9c7d045ce86929e7956.jpg

  • causal observer

    I’m hoping that the O Day presentation provides information that can be sorted into levels such as these:

    1) matrix = deuteratred/hydrogentated metal matrix
    2) input energy = external energy input stimulating the matrix (laser, heat, electrical current)
    3) input energy pattern = patterns in that energy input (frequency, variation in intensity)
    4) em field = collective photon-electron response to that energy input
    5) em / atomic coherence = atomic level response of the matrix to the input energy and resultant em field
    6) coulomb = coulomb-challenging multi-atomic and nuclear particle relationships
    7) nuclear = nuclear reactions in the deuterated matrix
    8) sub-nuclear = sub-hadron-level explanations for the nuclear reactions

    These are levels in conventional science by which things can be understood, analyzed and controlled.
    Naturally there are phenomena that cross multiple levels.
    However, they need to be broken down into levels such as these for understanding, analysis and control.

    If the O Day presentation does not provide information in these levels, or does not provide a “key” for translating the phenomena presented into these levels, or if such a key is not readily discoverable, then it is hard to see how O Day will advance realization of commercial and thus world-changing LENR.

    • Axil Axil

      1) matrix = deuteratred/hydrogentated metal matrix

      The LENR active agent is metallic deuterium. This crystal is produced in the lattice of the diamonds.

    • Axil Axil

      2) input energy = external energy input stimulating the matrix (laser, heat, electrical current)

      The surface electron spin wave of the metallic hydrogen produces polaritons on its service. This surface absorbs infrared photons in a polariton Bose condensate. This condinsate converts the spin of the photons into a magnetic flux tube that grows stronger as infrared energy is absorbed.

    • Jouni Tuomela

      No big deal, you just have to describe a better idea of things. Please do.

      • causal observer

        The better idea is to put ideas in a useful framework. Happy to have your contribution to the framework offered.

    • Axil Axil

      3) input energy pattern = patterns in that energy input (frequency, variation in intensity)

      The postilion condensate acts as an analog black hole and produces energy best when the photon frequency is equal to the hawking radiation temperature for that condensate.

    • Axil Axil

      4) em field = collective photon-electron response to that energy input

      The magnetic flux tube carries chiral polarized magnetic flux lines generated by the polarization currents circulating in the whispering gallery waves that contain the polariton condensate.

    • Axil Axil

      5) em / atomic coherence = atomic level response of the matrix to the input energy and resultant em field

      The polariton condensate is superconducting. This coherence generates entanglement with the matter that the flux tube touches. Many atoms can join the condensate via entanglement. Energy released from sub atomic reactions in the nucleons are transferred to the condensate via quantum teleportation. This additional energy makes the condensate self sustaining where heat photons are no longer required to support the condensate. The crystal is now independent and can travel.

    • Axil Axil

      6) coulomb = coulomb-challenging multi-atomic and nuclear particle relationships

      The coulomb barrier is not applicable. The LENR reaction is based on the upset of the chiral balance of particles in the nucleons produced by the chiral polarized flux tube

    • Axil Axil

      7) nuclear = nuclear reactions in the deuterated matrix

      8) sub-nuclear = sub-hadron-level explanations for the nuclear reactions

      The polariton condensate produces mesons from the decay of protons and neutrons via the flux tube. This decay is based on the chiral disruption of the flux tubes connecting the quarks. The disruption of the superconductivity inside the nucleation might also occur as the flux tube magnetism is strong enough to overcomes the Meissner effect that supports the flux tubes between the quarks.

    • Axil Axil

      The polariton condensate has three modes of energy release:
      1 hawking radiation for heat
      2 light based on polariton density
      3 particle creation – this starts out as mesons but ends up as electrons.

    • Axil Axil
    • Bob Greenyer

      It is far simpler.

      • causal observer

        Complexity and simplicity aren’t important. What is important is functional understanding that can be applied the benefit of others. So far as best I can tell you have produced little or no transmission of such understanding. If you have it, then you are withholding it, which prolongs the suffering of others. Why? Is it because you don’t have it, or cannot express it in a way that produces functional understanding? If so, then why do you claim that it is simple?

        • Axil Axil

          In a nutshell, the LENR reaction disintegrates matter.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Hmmm. it *looks* that way

          • Steve H

            Thanks for the summary.
            Do you mean it converts matter into energy?

            For example:-

            Heat + Exotic Particles.

          • Axil Axil

            yes

            Heat, light, UV, x-rays, electrons, muons,

        • Bob Greenyer

          I came to a realisation on 16th Jan. I am building the case. I could very easily have been wrong, but the harder I work, the more evidence there is in every photo or when visiting old data from previous years experiments.

          Everything I have said will be 100% obviously in context on ‘O Day’. I just really want others to ‘get it’ before, or be prepared with the background knowledge to get it, as it will be a LOT to take in.

          • causal observer

            It would be a lot easier to get on your case about this if you weren’t such a nice guy 🙂
            If the structure above helps at all in organizing your thoughts, please feel free to use it, even as a “O” draft.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Every picture and detail I draw attention to is for a reason. They are all part of the narrative.

            I did not expect to find so much corroboration of evidence of a realisation between very disparate systems and approaches – but it is there.

            What I am trying to do is give people a visual lexicon to grasp what will be central to ‘O Day’

          • causal observer

            Just a suggestion: I personally cannot do analysis and design work when I’m brain-fagged. That requires a combination of logic and intuition, and if the neuropeptides aren’t there, it’s not going to happen. However, I can do lots of sense-based physical work, and lots of light-weight imagining. If you’re going to crank out a big preso for O Day, you’re going to need to get out of the photo business, get some sleep, let your brain rest and store up enough juice for the necessary effort.

          • causal observer

            When people ‘get it’ it will be because they have associated it with familiar cognitive frameworks, such as the ones I listed above. The more that you can place your understanding in familiar cognitive frameworks, the more people will get it, and the more powerful your contribution will be. And the more there is to take in, the more those familiar cognitive frameworks will be needed. If you truly want to teach, think about the students, not just the material.

  • Anon2012_2014

    What about the enthalpy of formation of silicon aluminum oxynitride from the components, i.e. can we have oxidized reactants that we need to add energy to break apart (SiO2 and Al2O3) to then release more energy when they are combined into this compound. Here is some abstract from Navrotsky et al in J. Phys Chem B 1997 101(46) pp 9433-9435 — note the final sentence:

    Sialons (Si−Al−O−N) are useful as engineering components because they combine the toughness of silicon nitride with phase stability. Competing reactions occur during conventional processing, making it difficult to form single-phase material without high-temperature/long-time heat treatments. Thermochemical insights into sialon formation are complicated by impure samples, glassy phases, and slow reactions. Here we report the first direct thermochemical measurement of the energetics of a specially synthesized (single-phase, glass-free) β-sialon of composition Si3.17Al2.83O2.83N5.17 by dissolution calorimetry in molten (Li,Na)BO2 at 770 °C. A remarkable feature of our synthesis by a pulsed electric discharge method is that the unreacted starting powders (aluminum oxide, aluminum nitride, and silicon nitride) were simultaneously reacted and densified to form the single-phase β sialon, all in just 7 mina hitherto unattained processing record. Thermochemical measurements gave the first direct determination of the standard enthalpy of formation: −67.8 ± 15.5 kJ/mol from the compounds and −2768.3 ± 8.2 kJ/mol from the elements. The thermochemical data suggest new, possibly self-sustaining, reaction paths to refractory nitride materials.

    In my simplistic physical chemistry analysis:
    We can break apart Al2O3 for 1676 kj/mol
    We can break apart SiO2 for 911 kJ/mol
    The nitrogen is available in the air but I think we need to break it apart, but I think when they calculate enthalpies they refer N2, O2 and H2 as the zero point.

    I am not sure of how much of the above we need for 1 mol of the the SiAlON, or whether it is exothermic, or whether the reaction wants to go in the right direction. Can the hypothesis be conservatively rejected by enthalpies?

  • Bob Greenyer

    Copper wire has gone, yes none there at all.

    Not enough, it is a blend of Alumina taken from the outside of the core containment (including a large amount that does not fit an obvious gravity driven flow pattern, removed Quartz, Copper and Alumina foam with likely a good amount of other elements (TBC).

    It has more than gone through a crack, it carved out some of the core tube, removed a large volume of the fused quartz and even removed a good amount of the alumina foam. There is some damage to parts of the Kanthal – in addition to the weird migration at the other end of the tube around the heater wire.

  • artefact

    ahh, now I understand “the missing part” thing 🙂

  • Bob Greenyer

    No – small feature on the ‘triangle’ and the in the knee of the ‘Jewel inside’

  • Bob Greenyer

    ITS ALIVE?

    Pairs Found? Different pairs on different images? Can this really be a Sensor artefact? ( I have only looked at this image so far but a quick glance at another has other bright spots )

    Will need to do long exposure in dark and control with no LION2 tomorrow.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/68ee6c15b90ed0129b1e0c0de12ea43172392e70cf641028eb414f2d23aee75c.jpg

    32 Bit per RGB Channel version to download
    https://goo.gl/AzVwQ2

    Original 32 Bit per RGB Channel image without zoomed overlays to download (Shared earlier)
    https://goo.gl/drQM8Q

    • Axil Axil

      Are those bright spots self powered?

      • Bob Greenyer

        I have no idea axil, what I have done is noticed them and blown them all up 10x and I just saw pairs. I think there will be similar things in other photos. It only seems to be on affected areas, that is to say, the areas affected by the process. I need to run controls.

        The weird thing is they are either a specific Red or a specific green – is it a ‘red shift’ effect – like some active elements are pointing towards the camera and the others away – or is it that entangled ones are chiral and one type red shifts and the other one green shifts??

        The matched pairs is in line with the ‘Two Spots’ x-rays.

        As I said, I need to do controls in addition to in the dark exposures.

        • Axil Axil

          This single and double spot presentation supports the monopole and dipole soliton theory. The very bright red spot is more powerful than the dipole solitons because all the output energy is concentrated in one beam. I confess that I had never considered that the light output would be directional.

          The light produce by a condensate is laser light, a single frequency that is based on the number of polaritons in the condensate.

          A good test for self power is to take a long exposure picture in total darkness.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Axil, As I said in my post above – that is number one test – and with the control without reactor it will be pretty conclusive. I have one other test – Shine a bright light on it first, then turn of lights and expose – though it will have to wait till tomorrow.

          • Axil Axil

            It may be that the green solitons are entangled and share energy. The color produced by the dipole solitons look the same which means that the solitons may have formed a quantum mechanical energy sharing network.

            Keith Fredericks has seen entangled behavior in the paths that these solitons leave.

            http://restframe.com/mm/images/vs_large.jpg

    • Andreas Moraitis

      I am sure you know that digital cameras can produce various kinds of artifacts. A lot, if not all of them are listed in this thread: https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/list-of-all-types-of-image-noise-and-artifacts.329761/

      If you have the RAW data, you could compare it with your processed image. But there are also sensor artifacts that would not be detectable that way.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I do know this yes.

        What is curious to me is that there are pairs of identical spot arrangements in different places and at different distances and only pairs.

        Moreover there are a few odd ones and they are only on the dark areas.

        I am pretty certain the Sensor has some hot pixels and ordinarily I would have dismissed this if they were all random and only a few, it is the number and their distribution and pairing that got me intrigued given the context of all the other pairing observed in LION1.

        Like I say, there are a series of test that I need to do to try and dismiss this apparent finding.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I already shared all the raw data in a 7GB file

        There are many images in that dataset with -2EV or so exposures, so there is likely more than enough already in the public domain a few days back to establish if this is an artefact.

        108 people have downloaded this data set at least a day before I noticed this in the image. I will do a quick look at another -EV image and see if they are there.

    • Stephen

      Hmm Bob if it’s not a photographic or light sourc angle/crystal artifact. Could be interesting to try you magnetic film in that location.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Will try, but these areas are VERY small. he largest is coming from the Kanthal wire, so that is the first one to look at – however, if I can prove this is a camera sensor artefact, might not need to go there.

    • Stephen

      If the light source is using a combination of colors in very narrow bands it could have the effect from refraction in crystals.

      Such as a CFL or LED source.

      But I would expect at least 3 colours normally (like a tv screen)

    • Bob Greenyer

      As noted above I have determined this to be Camera sensor issues – was it damage by looking at a particular sample over the last 5 years? don’t know.

  • Frost*

    Interesting. MIT have found a way to get photons to group together ( at very cold temps though ).

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180215141713.htm

    • georgehants

      Sorry Frost, I put up above before seeing your link

  • Bob Greenyer

    Yes sgm0369 – that is going to be one test.

  • georgehants

    TechTimes
    Scientists Created New Form Of Light With Potential Use In Quantum Computing
    16 February 2018, 9:31 pm EST By Allan Adamson Tech Times
    In experiments, researchers created a new form of photon that can
    attract or entangle each other just like atom-sized lightsabers. The new
    photonic matter is also slower than normal light.
    ( Engin Akyurt | Pixabay )
    Scientists have managed to get photons to interact well enough with each other to effectively produce a new form of light. The new photon matter has characteristics that are distinct from those of normal light particles.
    In a study published in the journal Science, Vladan Vuletic,
    from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and colleagues reported
    observing groups of three photons interacting and essentially sticking
    together to form a new kind of photonic matter.
    The photons are like some form of atom-size lightsaber. The results suggest some kind of interaction taking place among the light particles.
    http://www.techtimes.com/articles/221205/20180216/scientists-created-new-form-of-light-with-potential-use-in-quantum-computing.htm

  • georgehants

    SCIENCE advances
    Research ArticlesPHYSICS
    Fractal universality in near-threshold magnetic lanthanide dimers
    Abstract
    Ergodic
    quantum systems are often quite alike, whereas nonergodic, fractal
    systems are unique and display characteristic properties. We explore one
    of these fractal systems, weakly bound dysprosium lanthanide molecules,
    in an external magnetic field. As recently shown, colliding ultracold
    magnetic dysprosium atoms display a soft chaotic behavior with a small
    degree of disorder. We broaden this classification by investigating the
    generalized inverse participation ratio and fractal dimensions for large
    sets of molecular wave functions. Our exact close-coupling simulations
    reveal a dynamic phase transition from partially localized states to
    totally delocalized states and universality in its distribution by
    increasing the magnetic field strength to only a hundred Gauss (or 10
    mT). Finally, we prove the existence of nonergodic delocalized phase in
    the system and explain the violation of ergodicity by strong coupling
    between near-threshold molecular states and the nearby continuum.
    http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/2/eaap8308

  • Bob Greenyer

    There was an error caused by my late night Photoshop work in the top right most non-paired spot. My process was this

    1. Identify hot spot
    2. Clone to new layer so I had spot reference so I could turn off layer below and not be identifying the same spot multiple times
    3. Identify pairs
    4. Clone again and scale 10x and position with offset and add glow to separate from main image

    In the spot in question I had offset by accidentally dragging the position reference clone on non-paired item. You can compare the TIFF with the spot identification and the original TIFF both in photoshop that was shared before these features were identified in photoshop and see the offending mistake.

    Attached is a revised jpg
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b1ac0ef0e380b3840144af58515799796466dbbd9f2eb09903c51a8ce860f9df.jpg

    Here is a link to a new TIFF where the offending reference layer has been switched off in photoshop. For those that have already downloaded the previous TIFF and have photoshop, you can just go in and turn off the offending layer.
    https://goo.gl/xhsNcT

    Ok, off to the Lab in a while to take some photos.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Yes – this is an interesting shape, I had identified this and it is a signature of the process.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Spots confirmed as camera sensor artefact, not caused by some kind of radiation. This is re-assuring as many people are now beginning replications. Several locations were identified ans having near identical errors in the image between pictures looking at a different part of the reactor.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5b4dc3c8956dff95f3c97b0590b9096a8b410bb4418ab7dbedaf3eba8f121622.gif

  • Bob Greenyer

    LION – Rotated image, to help people understand the role of gravity.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/58de9b45ac93d31636cc81ec21a39c5bf8aae7e81c65aca343d1268ae4b123be.jpg

    • Frost*

      A real mixture of stuff there. The rose jewel has a cream lining to it that is completely different from the rest of the jewel.

      • Bob Greenyer

        And that in turn has a ‘cut out’

      • Stephen

        There are alot of different materials in there but the gravity orientation helps with perspective.

        Behind and above the pink quartz the quartz looks green is to me in this picture.

        The silver dark crystalised like material is mostly at the bottom both inside and out side the quartz but interestingly seems to end distinctly in boylth areas around the break and pink quartz area. I wonder if that material could be Copper Silicate.. but how it would form there and be seen booth sides of the quartz tube is something I guess only a materials expert could explain.

        Could carbon in a polymer mediate this kind of effect?

        I do wonder if your effect allows this type of material to form in differeng mixtures and temperatures regimes than we would normally expect.

        There are other materials brown reddish and yellow in different areas too.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I think that some Chrome from the Kanthal has come into play to produce the range of colours.

          The process can mix homogeneously at non-normal temperatures

      • Steve H

        The cream lined section of quartz appears to be gas deposition from a very local “hotspot”.
        (The lid of a cauldron).

  • Karl Venter

    Hi Bob
    Please explain Day O for the less informed like me
    I have to admit I dont quite understand
    If Axil gives a summary I am lost he is way way ahead of me and most I presume
    Please ?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Axil is doing well, as is Musical Hemispheres, artefact and a few others

      IMHO, ‘O Day’ will explain both LENR and a LOT MORE. You will not need maths and much will be self-evident ‘ah hah’ and it is based on nearly the full body of MFMP work and iteractions in a weird sort of ‘we only got what was needed from each interaction’ kind of basis, with a few exceptions.

      For many, aspects of ‘O Day’ will literally blow their minds.

      I am working to make the case VERY strong so much less per person explanation is required post presentation – I want it to be one to many delivery.

      • Karl Venter

        Thanks

      • Frost*

        Bob, do you have much left to do towards your o-day presentation? And did you get access to the SEM last week?

        • Bob Greenyer

          Got access, but we ran out of time – so data is stuck there till get access again next Thursday.

          The case is pretty conclusive now, but I have about 20 slides to improve, I need to organise it and then I’d like to add the SEM / EDS data and racord/edit. It is a HUGE amount of work and today I will have to do some paid work and I want some time with family.

          • LION

            Hi BOB,
            please remember with regard to your LION work, there is NO outside TIME Pressure from me. If you and your family needed to take a holiday for a few weeks you would not hear a wimper of complaint from me.
            What you have done for the LENR Community is so amazing, and what you are doing with the LION reactors is simply STUNNING.
            I am sure your MFMP colleagues are equally Proud of you.
            At times like these, THANK YOU, seems hardly up to the job of expressing my GRATITUDE.
            That through you and MFMP and LFH and all the Generous donors,- this work is being shared with the whole worldwide LENR Community, is simply wonderful.
            It really is a Transformational moment in my own life too.
            I know the reactors could not be in better hands, and what useful DATA can be extracted will be.
            THANK YOU BOB.

          • georgehants

            LION, Wonderful considerate comment, could not agree more.

          • sam

            Keep the pressure on Bob.
            He can have a holiday after O Day.

          • Bob Greenyer

            You old dog you sam

          • Bob Greenyer

            A pleasure and an honour. As I said at the start of MDWL – “This is one of the most important experiments”

            Your open approach and humility and especially the sharing of the ‘Two Spots’ x-rays, allowed a re-evaluation of all previous data.

            LION2 really is the icing on the cake and I can say 100% things are coming that will blow peoples minds.

            Thankyou again

  • Bob Greenyer
    • David_Kaiser_39

      I’m really curious to know the composition of this black stuff in the alumina. Is it just “burned”? Or the silica/copper/whatever penetrated somehow into the alumina? Or everything got just mixed up through a reaction not yet fully understood. I’ll be waiting…. to know.

  • Bob Greenyer

    O Day is coming…

    Can you see the similarity now?

    What does it mean?

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/04cd7b01a3627748de6851989759130a4eed9842ce68ddec1a0f148636650b93.jpg

    • keenant

      The curve on the quartz and the dark patch are the same shape, also the angle on the pink quartz is 120 degrees which is 2 segments of a hexagon. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7f30af4586ad90a5eaed0bc2dcb3e314f7f1d3f32ff4393804789dc3c774e809.png

    • Bob Greenyer

      Note, I am not just drawing attention to the outline – I am also
      pointing out the ‘square’ cut out from the left on both structures.

      • artefact
        • Bob Greenyer

          right idea

      • artefact
        • Bob Greenyer

          Yes

          • georgehants

            Bob, something else, invisible is there stopping the formation

          • Bob Greenyer

            Good guess.

            Where oh where do the triangles point?

          • artefact

            Where their material is deposited?

          • Bob Greenyer

            warmer

          • artefact

            To one side of the torus.

          • Bob Greenyer

            what is a side of a torus?

          • artefact

            In the small image of the “similarity” pic, if the torus goes out on one side next to the rose quarz and comes in at the other side of it, one triangle (half of the rose quarz) points to the outgoing side and one side to the other.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Look at the ‘two spots’ x-rays and the mirrored triangle videos. These features can interleave with impunity – why?

            No need to assume that all of the Torus are part of the same structure, though some are, in a fractal way.

          • artefact

            They are just lensing effects of something happening in the fuel.

          • Stephen

            Hmm does it work in other bases than decimal i wonder?

            Nice though

          • artefact

            Have a look at the links I postet. MANY similarities with the pictures posted.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Tetrahedron is the MFMP logo – with the ‘New Fire’ safely contained within – what does that mean?

          • artefact

            A tetrahedron may be the place where light gets captured to create a kind of black hole?

          • Bob Greenyer

            just light?

          • artefact

            em radiation… energy

          • Bob Greenyer

            Revisit my early questions.

          • artefact

            The tetrahedron is pointing to the singularity…

          • Bob Greenyer

            very close…

            What is the title slide of ‘O Day’

          • artefact

            Singularity in a hexagonal crystal?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Not necessarily, but singularity… lots.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I am just about to post a killer video you will not want to miss.

            Sleep well!

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            Will you be posting SEM/ EDS analysis of the fuel discs?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes – I need to get the data next Thursday, ran out of time this Thursday to do the export.

          • Stephen

            Well I suppose a triangle could be plasmonic black so energy going in can’t radiate out?

            If that’s a lot of energy it could be a high energy density? Is it something like that?

          • Axil Axil

            “Energy can’t escape” might not be applicable. Maybe energy was transformed.

            Energy might be transformed into electons. Remember that 36000 joules of electrons were produced.

          • Stephen

            Ahh sorry Axil I changed my post from ‘escape’ to ‘radiate out’ before I read your post…

            But I see your point.

            I guess there would be some maths baed in energy density and rate of transformation what ever that was.

          • Bob Greenyer

            This process is not a one way door

          • Stephen

            So as Axil says it’s not really a “black hole” in the traditional sense but an analogue one and what goes in can’t escape maybe but what goes in comes out the other end somehow but transformed?

          • Bob Greenyer

            No, and yes, depends.

            Listen to Shoulders 2010 Interview I transcribed on steemit – he characterised what is possible in the transportation and transmutation sense – up to a point.

          • artefact

            mhh according to an ether video I saw, all matter is comprised of tetrahedral standing wave energy geometries.

          • Bob Greenyer

            and it is not wrong on a way

          • Stephen

            Well the 3 torus in a Platonic solid looks like it could be a bit related to the standard model to me… when you consider local frames of reference causality energy density GR and external frames of reference but speculative for me to say so of course.

            But I guess I’m getting a big side tracked.

          • Bob Greenyer

            No – you are not.

          • Stephen

            I wonder if anyone knows what kind of signature x-rays or UV would leave in the material contained in this reactor. Could we expect burns of chemical Effects that would be a signature of X-ray emmisions?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Piantelli got a burn. It happens in specific circumstances.

            In ‘O Day’ I will try to detail where the risks are with this technology and will be open to discussion on any and all aspects.

          • artefact

            Repost. I think with my many edits the old post was not displayed correctly in all cases.

            They are just lensing effects of something happening in the fuel.

            The whole rose quarz structure (including the carv outs) shuld be a result of something happening in the fuel
            hexagonal vacuum energy?
            Like: http://www.soulsofdistortion.nl/SODA_chapter6.html
            or: http://aetherforce.com/the-aether-the-torus-and-the-wave-structure-of-matter
            That would explain Russ Gries interest in tedrahedrons 🙂

            Nicola Tessla: 369
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inWnhZp_A-M

          • artefact
        • Bob Greenyer

          Very good – there is a similar structure to the ‘jewel’ growing in that plane – you can see it in one of the shots below.

        • Bob Greenyer

          The feature in the quartz is fanning out in a way that can be seen because the reset of the material has fallen off. I am drawing attention to the main cream (for the quartz) and grey (for the infused alumina) shapes with the ‘squarish cut’ at the small end. These are almost identical in form and even scale.

          Note that from the ‘two spots’ x-rays and the mirrored triangles in MDWL – it is clear these torus can interleave with impunity – why?

          • georgehants

            Because they are produced by black holes in the shape of a hexagon.

          • artefact

            “The implosion of the electromagnetic waves into shorter
            and shorter wavelengths is what gravity really is. In a way the
            torus is a miniature black hole that attracts the light into itself
            creating gravity”
            From: http://aetherforce.com/the-aether-the-torus-and-the-wave-structure-of-matter

          • Bob Greenyer

            Very close Artefact. You and George are actually thinking!

            You are both close…

            Think fractal, revisit my questions, why did I ask them?

          • artefact

            See my other post below. Maybe thats better.

          • Axil Axil
          • Bob Greenyer

            That too – or propulsion for that matter

          • artefact

            well, it says “in a way” 🙂

          • Bob Greenyer

            Oh George – who would have thought YOU would get closest first!!!

            Well done! I’ll try to mention you in ‘O Day’…

            What can be seen as a hexagon?

            Think, What have I asked you to look at before?

          • georgehants

            six triangles

          • Axil Axil

            The LENR active agent has the ability to store energy and to transform that energy into particles and EMF.

            It breaks matter up into energy and reforms it into particles and EMF. The hard part is to get LENR to supply the kind of energy that we want to produce: maybe electrons, maybe heat, maybe light.

          • georgehants

            Axil Axil, you may be thinking at only the level of particle physics, overriding this is the Quantum where the immaterial rules.
            Particles etc. would only be the end result in our reality.

          • artefact

            I see you are full of energy now George 🙂

          • Stephen

            Interesting match curious.

            Just to be thorough:

            Bob do you have the “jigsaw” pieces that broke of god other sides of the jewel feature?

            If so are they of the same material surrounding the jewel on the attached quartz tube?

            Smsi you also gave the alumina that broke of the feature you shared here? I’m curious if you see that shape there and if it follows a path of tube of something.

            It’s very strange that The sharp resemblance between the shapes almost suggests a radiative process rather than a diffuse one except that they are orthogonal to each other!

            Very curious indeed

          • Bob Greenyer

            I have looked for them tonight – I think there is a shadow on one but o am trying to do some paid work… just soo boring though!

          • Steve H

            The remaining cream appears to be two sides of a hexagon if you mentally complete the piece broken off.

      • Frost*

        Golden ratio involved? Seems similar.

      • At 5:20 into your video ‘LION – Fuel Area Tube Section Detail, extreme close up’ 3 days ago, there is a similar gray shape in the alumina on the other side of the tube. It looks like it might even have a squarish bite out of one end.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Yes – I saw that in my video earlier today and came into lab to see. It is there – I will take a quick video and post.

          • I’m wondering if it is a different artifact or the backside of the one we see on the other side…

          • Bob Greenyer

            Ok – I have a video and images – very interesting. Compiling now – could not get the one by the ‘Jewel’ a that was where the screw driver broke the alumina – however, a whole new one at other end with a lot more going on!

  • sam
  • Bob Greenyer

    It has been moved around.

  • Steve H

    Looks to me like capillary action, local to the quartz leak point. The flowing mass of material being limited to this area due to it’s small volume.
    Had there been more material it is likely it would have continued further along the Kanthal wire.

    The Kanthal wire appears distorted at first glance, but on closer inspection it may just be the shape formed by coating from the flowing mass.

  • Bob Greenyer

    The contradiction comes with the large infusion throughout all of the quartz above the ‘melt’ and 3 individual Kanthal wraps that have the melt going around them, even all the way to the top (see in pictures above)

  • Jouni Tuomela

    It’s all about frequencies. 432Hz does a much better job than 440Hz:
    From 4:30
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zw0uWCNsyw

  • Bob Greenyer

    The dark material has gone between the Quartz and the Alumina.

    Are there any metrics you need – I think that Alan Smith can provide the ID / OD of the quartz tube, the ID of the hole in the Alumina, the OD / Gauge of the Kanthal wire.

    You have not mentioned the very even distribution of somthing in the quartz above the ‘flood line’ and how the ‘jewel’ is so different and of a very particular shape.

  • Axil Axil

    The holes that we see in the close up pictures of the ruins of the LION reactor meltdown are many and deep and sometimes wide. If all the matter that once filled those holes was transformed into energy, the United Kingdom would now be a hole in the Atlantic. What happened to all that matter that once filled those holes.

    The Flux tube might actually be a Wormhole where a black hole is connected to a white hole by the flux tube worm hole. The black hole would suck matter into the flux tube, pass down through the wormhole and out the white hole somewhere else.

    Have we seen matter that was once in one location moved to another location, it a way that just does not make any sense?

    If this is actually happening, will Bob have the guts to explain how this is being done in the LION reactor. Do people still get burned at the stake at this late date for witchcraft?

    To get more info on this subject see

    Are Wormholes a Dead End for Faster-Than-Light Travel?

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-wormholes-a-dead-end-for-faster-than-light-travel/

    • Bob Greenyer

      Well done Axil – you are very close indeed – there is a wormhole in play, but not quite as you think

    • Andreas Moraitis

      The holes have been there before. Look at the intact alumina – it’s porous.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Andreas,

        It is all chemical effects.

        Can we please focus on the experimentally proven nuclear reaction D+D > 4He + 23.8 Mev (heat)?

        No need for vortex rings, black holes, aether, images in clouds nor new physics.

        • Bob Greenyer

          can we agree on one thing – it is physics. There is no such thing as ‘old physics’ there is ‘wrong physics’ that is assumed to be correct / practically works for most things needed – but in truth there is only one way things actually work.

          How can you exhibit such hubris and state emphatically that it is just all chemical effects when you have proclaimed you will not look at the evidence and instead choose to spend your time commenting about approaches that didn’t actually lead to any published self sustaining reaction.

          LION author claims that the reactor self sustained for days – when you understand the actual process (which is based in real physics, whatever that actually is, since it happened) his claims will be perfectly reasonable.

          This is NOT the bashing particles together approach.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            Please post the temp data supporting the Lion multi day SSM claim.

            If you can not produce supportive data then you have engaged in belief and not in science.

            Richard Feynman:
            “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you’re the easiest person to fool.”

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ad1d702f8e2e3d2dfb0464ad16ffc4ecab76dff22d677247c660d291386a8ea1.png

            Bob you have no data to support multi day SSM, so please stop making such claims as if you can not prove they occurred.

            Your 1st responsibility is to be skeptical and ask for proof.

          • georgehants

            Engineer48, Please wait for “O” day and after before starting the debunking etc. of the scientific establishment to any thing beyond what their priests allow.
            You may do better on the Rossi page demanding from him after eight years of nothing to know his secrets.
            Have been reading your kind of comments about Cold Fusion since P&F did their work.

          • Engineer48

            Hi George,

            You miss the point.

            Bob claims the Lion reactor ran in SSM mode, no power input, for several days yet produced no evidence that really occurred.

            That is not how science works.

            That is now faith works.

            In regard to LENR I’m a man of science and will call anybody out that brings faith into a science discussion.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Wrong – STOP SPREADING FALSEHOODS

            I said the Claimant said it ran in SSM.

            I said I have grounds to believe him.

            What do you stand to lose / who is paying you? Seriously, who would waste their time like you are without having a vested interest in crushing this?

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            You made the SSM claim.

            Post the supportative data or wirhdraw the claim.

            That is now science works.

          • georgehants

            Engineer48, I miss “no point” science is and always has been a disgrace of religious beliefs in many areas.
            Leave Bob MFMP alone if you are unable to offer anything constructive and judge them like the rest of us when the time comes.
            You did nor reply to my point regarding Rossi and you not on his page pulling him and his work apart, which is the scientific method of course.
            Goodbye

        • Hi Engineer
          For now it might make sense to focus on trying the recipe and gather data on heat. If someone could get a reactor on tape operating at high temperature without the power supply kicking in, that would be more relevant than hypothetical calculations of Deuterium creating Helium.

        • Stephen

          You normally need to think about more than energy but conservation of states and take into account spin and polarity changes etc. The gamma photon is not just energy but accounting for these changes in state. When the photon is not enough to account for the changes in state particles would normally be released maybe a nucleon maybe a beta and a neutrino. It’s not enough to just think in terms of energy especially unresonant energy.

          If I understand right CarlOscar Gullström sees the sigma meson as an alternative to a gamma photon to mediate the changes in state between nucleon pairs. But to do this needs to set up the right machine for that process to manifest and to facilitate the necessary coupling in the far field.

          To do that with phonons you would also need to set up the machine where these resonances and changes in state are correctly accounted for in additional to allowing the necessary coupling.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Sorry E48, but you are addressing the wrong person with this reply. Maybe you are referring to a comment by another reader?

          • Engineer48

            Hi Andreas,

            Oops.

            Should have been Axil, not you. Edited post.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Aligned counter rotating vortex flux loop and changes to materials not in direct contact in area of the tube outside of the core and heater wire.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/824e698e314569d0ed2cf27300b4c18ed3e70edaa9e83766eae8ddec1a2e6c5c.jpg

    https://youtu.be/KnMjgI6NIGw

    • artefact

      the sound seems to be not existent. Maybe it is just my PC.
      (You know how to keep me awake 🙂 )

      • Bob Greenyer

        Sound is definitely there.

        it is 01:33 here!

        • artefact

          same here: 01:33 (Munich area)

          • Bob Greenyer

            This is an experiment that just keeps on giving!

          • artefact

            There is a hole in the tungsten wire in the corner that should have laid in the middle of one of the spots. In the middle of the other spot where no wire was it looks as if the alumina foam has melted (little blob)

          • Bob Greenyer

            WELL SPOTTED SIR!

            Think harder on what it is telling you

          • artefact

            The wire had a triangle shape and the hole is direcly at the top. Same constellation like in the rose quarz pic.
            But further thinking from my side will have to wait till tomorrow 🙂

          • Bob Greenyer

            Sleep well.

          • artefact

            I slept good like falling down a rabit hole: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499596/

            Does the singularity produce torsion waves?

          • Stephen

            Was the knee their in the original set up or bent after during dismantling?

            If originally there then I can think 2 things that might be relevant.

            1. the thermal conditions there could be different due to the knee. Setting up turbulence in a gas maybe.

            2. The EM field could be different due to a the wire being bent there setting up turbulence in an ionized fluid or plasma.

            I favor the later given the marks in the other side of the device.

            Was the etching on the inside surface of the quartz or the outside?

          • Bob Greenyer

            bent before

            did not reach centre of counter rotating vortex feature

            on outside and into – must check if also in side

          • Bob Greenyer

            There is a melt in the alumina

        • artefact

          It was my PC 🙂

          • Bob Greenyer

            Phew!

    • I took these two snips from your ‘Swirl through quartz’ video above. I believe the area marked ‘A’ is the same one shown in your ‘similarity’ image below. The gray one with the squarish bite out of the lower left side. Im wondering if that along with the others might indicate that a toroid or flux tube completely encircled the quartz tube at that point.
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/46977280d5a464a1544c981d145c12adc519f9108aa501da6365aadb15acb42c.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/35f4b7db969e88fa0afb9d80b6ca7bf720e185c185f137e945b97b2bd598ab90.jpg

      • Bob Greenyer

        Yes – I believe it did and that is why I said below that the grey coating had been moved around the quartz/wire.

        The process acts in this way like a big cement mixer, and the LION author claims it did this with no power for days – my understanding of the process makes this entirely reasonable thing to claim.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Bob, who wrote:

          “The LION author claims it did this with no power for days”

          For that to happen with no temp feedback to moderate input power to adjust reactor temp says the thermal losses equally the thermal gain for days without any control system.

          Even a small 1% difference between thermal loss vs thermal output over days would have either generated a melt down or a shutdown.

          Hard to imagine such a close match of reaction generated energy vs energy loss that would enable a multi day SSM, especially with no temp data.

          Just ask yourself if any other LENR guy was making such claims and provided NO TEMP DATA what you think?

          Sorry but multi day SSM claims with no data is highly questionable?

          Lion 1 no temp data
          Lion 2 no temp data

          Yet you accept without question the claims.

          All I can say is Bad Science.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Science is all about looking at the empirical evidence and trying to establish a hypothesis to explain it.

            You somehow believe you are more scientific by stating very clearly that you REFUSE to look at experimental evidence across a wide range of experiments that span more than 30 years and put up straw man arguments to justify this dubious ‘evaluative’ approach and belittle the very real effort of those that are less in a box.

            This process can self sustain until certain conditions are broken. In time you will know this to be true.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            Post the data supporting multi day SSM.

            If you can’t do that then stop stating it happened.

            That is now science works.

            People make claims. Other people ask for proof. No proof. No validity of claim.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Perhaps you are not able to parse my British syntax

            1. LION author claimed this
            2. Given what I understand about the process, I think this claim is entirely reasonable

            Stop setting up straw men based on fallacies, you are letting yourself down. If you can’t use your intellect to look at evidence why do you waste your one life goading?

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob.

            Lion produced NO temp vs time vs input powet data for Lion 1 nor Lion 2.

            Yet you support his claims without question.

            Sorry but that is not science.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I do.

            If you have nothing of use to say – this will be the last comment of yours I will reply to – you are trolling and it is wasting my time (which seams to be the only thing that you are intending to do)

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            Since when is asking for supportative evidence trolling?

            Science is about posting the evidence to support a claim and then allowing others to question everything.

            What you are saying is believe what I claim is true and ask no questions.

            Bob O Day will see blood on the floor as the wider scientific community walks away from MFMP having any credibility.

            O Day will lower LENR credibility. Are you ready for that outcome?

          • Mylan

            I sympathize with your arguments. Unfortunately, in the LENR community a lot is more about believe than about data. Also, what is frequently ignored is that reproduceability is of fundamental importance to produce scientific facts. Very much even peer reviewed data in “regular” science is of no value because it is simply wrong, which can be for many reasons. That’s why reproduceability is so important and why meta analyses are also necessary.

            It’s great that Bob tried independent measurements on reactors. It’s worrying concerning the reality of LENR that these efforts were fruitless so far in regards to overunity.

            I’m curious what O day will be, I just doubt that Bob will have enough hard facts to prove anything. I have the impression that speculations go a lot too far based on certain patterns seen, but let’s see. Can’t wait fuf O day anyway, very curious.

          • psi2u2

            Nice summary of a fascinating exchange.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob, who wrote,
            “If you have nothing of use to say – this will be the last comment of yours I will reply to – you are trolling and it is wasting my time (which seams to be the only thing that you are intending to do)”

            Science is about:

            1) making a claim
            2) suppling sopportarive evidence
            3) allowing others to review the claim and supportative evidence
            4) responding to the review.

            You appear to be saying you will do step 1 but will not engage step 2 and anybody who dares to question step 1 will no longer be engaged in discussion.

            Here is how it works.

            You make a claim.
            Everybody else gets to ask you for the evidence and gets to question everything without you walking away and saying discussion closed.

          • artefact

            If the reaction is most efficient hat a certain temperature it will try to keept it.

          • Bob Greenyer

            A reaction that can be fed on heat and produces over unity can self sustain with 1 nanowatt – all it is a case of is matching the thermodynamics.

            If a reactor is producing 2000W, and the reactor materials can handle the process, then when the Stefan Boltzmann losses match the SSM gains the reactor will stabilise until some aspect of the process or its containment fails.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            Sorry but it is a positive feedback system.

            Thermal gain, increased output temp, feeds back as higher input, driving higher output.

            No way does it self limit.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Artefact,

            I design and built control systems.

            If you did you would not make such a statement.

            A LENR reactor is a thermal amplifier. It is inherently unstable.

            Ask yourself why Lion sent 2 reactor cores to Bob but supplied NO temp vs time data, no data to support a SSM claim.

            Sorry but it is highly suspect.

          • artefact

            There were more claims of HAD in other experiments that ran for a certain time without input. Some long some not.

          • Engineer48

            Ho Artefact,

            Lion sent 2 cores to Bob, yet no temp vs time data.

            WHY would anyone do that if those reactors really did generate excess heat?

          • artefact

            He is (probably) “just” a hobby experimenter who has seen things he finds very important and leaves the details to the replicators having better equipment.

          • artefact

            He is (probably) “just” a hobby experimenter and found something he finds is very important. He leaves the details to the replicators with better equipment.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Artefact,

            Lion is using a LFH test rig which has temp vs input pwr vs time recording.

            Alan told me he was credible.

            So I ask again where is the temp vs input pwr vs time data to support a COP > 1 and multi day SSM.

        • Are there ideas as to what the grey coating is?

          • Bob Greenyer

            I will be able to confirm on Thursday

    • The quartz glass tube is used over and over one experiment after another. When removing a core from the ports of the reactor while operating at high temperature it helps to hold the glass steady with one tool and remove the core with another. That could be one candidate for creating the marks at the outer end of the quartz.

      • Bob Greenyer

        This quartz tube was BRAND NEW and had never been used before – confirmed by LION author who sent me the Quartz tube from LION 1 to prove it.

        The record of me breaking the reactor open was done live on Youtube, no tool came in contact with this area.

        It is nothing to do with handling, it is a signature of the process.

    • So it looks like this toroid was an elongated ellipse passing through both sides of the quartz tube. Or two small toroids each passing through opposites sides of the tube… ???

      • Bob Greenyer

        One of those options – I action favour the latter.

        • Stephen

          It’s interesting that the swirls here are behind the base of the inner reactor tube and in a part of of the quartz tube that is neither blackened or coloured.

          The swirls are also roughly circular in shape indicating a vortex or toroid was more or less orthogonal to the quartz tube and so did not seem to intercept the inner reactor.

          One pair of swirls seems to be associated with the corner of the heater wire and the opposite also under the wire at the other end.

          This is the first wire loop with out the reactor tube inside.

          The darkening and colored glass is also only where the copper covered inner reactor tube existed indicating what was causing that effect was apparently radial ineffect from the tube and not along or off axis.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The left swirl has been influenced and distorted by the coil.

        • georgehants

          Morning Bob, sorry to be a pain but way down the page where I answered black-holes you asked what know to look at what a hexagon represented, I replied six triangles, was that right or wrong.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Not entirely.

            What does the flower of life encode?

            What is common about each?

            Think outside the ‘box’

          • georgehants

            Just wild guessing of course but fun, can be fractal, any connection with the double helix, Fibonacci.

          • Bob Greenyer

            All of the above

          • georgehants

            Bob, you seem to believe that the geometry of a Hexagon and it’s derivatives, Hexagram etc. etc. lead somewhere very fundamental and important, is there a leap that must be made to find your conclusion, that takes us to an explanation of everything.
            Would that leap take us to something, pointed to, but outside of geometry?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Someone mockingly said this was ‘O Day’… it is not, but you gotta love synchronicity.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Day_(crater)

            Hexagons are everywhere – why?

          • georgehants

            Bob, we have moved to the top of page.

          • artefact

            The hexagon and the flower of life have in common, that you can derive the Metatron’s Cube (depicts the five platonic solids) from the flower of life which is hexagonal.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes

            Not just the Metatron’s cube – what about all the other platonic solids?

            Think orientation

            Think outside the box.

          • artefact

            Is your presentation called: The Fractal-Holographic Universe ?

            http://holofractal.net/the-holofractographic-universe/

          • georgehants

            Morning artefact, we are still here doing our best, ha.

          • artefact

            Hi George, yes.
            I love puzzles when they are interesting.

          • georgehants

            Yes, it is going to be so annoying if when “O” day comes we think O no why did I not see that, good luck on your efforts.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I had not seen that post.

            He is close.

            He is right in his conclusions.

            The world is going to change.

          • georgehants

            artefact, great find, would you mind moving it to the top of the page and we can carry on from there, hard to keep finding our place down here in the basement.

          • artefact

            done.

  • Engineer48

    Suggest combining the

    Superwave video
    https://youtu.be/7PnWF7W_IbY

    With the Brillouin video
    https://youtu.be/1HT2Hr5jPIY

    With the Thermal Resonance Fusion paper
    https://arxiv.org/abs/1507.01650

    Allows us to move forward in understand the physical trigger that lights the New Fire plus explains why there are no gammas.

    No new physics is necessary. All that is needed is a better understanding of the micro enviroment as a phonon or vibration compression and expansion wave propogates through a lattice that is loaded with interstitial D or H (which turns into D).

    • Bob Greenyer

      Let’s see.

  • Anon2012_2014

    Good answer. Thank you.

  • Da Phys

    Is a drawing or diagram of the reactor available somewhere ideally with IDs and ODs? I admit I’m lost about the position of the kanthal, copper, quartz, thermocouple, silver, etc… Thanks

    • Bob Greenyer

      If you go to Lookingforheat.com website and look at the Model T, it is faily well described there with an excellent time-lapse build video from Russ Gries.

      I have asked below for IDz and ODs from Alan, but if I can acquire some calipers next week – I will measure up where possible.

      You can see pictures and hear description of the core that went into LFH test bed in the ‘Mining Diamonds with LION” on MFMP YouTube channel.

      I was told that LION 1 had 10 Diapad discs in it, I don’t know as I have not cracked that cell. I have recovered nearly 18 from LION 2. My personal opinion is that the process will work with just one prepared disc – I consider the discs as just the ‘ovaries’ the main action happens in the Cu ( which is a good compromise of high conductivity and melting point, both advantageous for the process )

      When we do our replication it will be fully described.

      • Da Phys

        Thank you Bob this is appreciated. In summary,
        – the Cu wraps the alumina tube and is coated with some alumina coating paste
        – some silver is added on top of the coated Cu but only over a few cms
        – the alumina tube+copper+silver is inserted into a larger quartz tube
        – a single K-type thermocouple measures the temperature between the Cu and the quartz around the middle of the tube
        – the kantal heating element wraps the quartz tube.
        Did I get that right (forgetting for now the internal components)?

        • Bob Greenyer

          Not coated with alumina paste – just wrapped in copper – that contacts the bolt and then in Quartz Liner.

          K-Type goes in Back AFAIK

        • artefact

          The silver was on the tube. Arround that, the copper wire was wound.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Actually the silver was just at the tip as showed in one slide of the video/presentation.

        • Steve H

          I believe the silver foil coating at the end is underneath the copper coils, not on top. Photo’s seemed to indicate it is just over an inch long.
          Thanks Phys for raising this question, I had wondered myself on some aspects which yourself and Bob have clarified.

        • Steve H

          Found the original info from one of Bobs presentations.

          Try this link:-
          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_jV_XVgMRiA https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f5ae688066748bc3f20b242cecceef4a309099ff0a0d8a9d8ccdc55b80416f74.png

          The still image is from 24mins, 17 sec into the video.

  • Bob Greenyer

    The quartz above the flood line has other elements distributed into the mass of the ceramic – it is a coating where it was moved around the tube.

  • Alan Smith is putting together some high temperature control experiments as we speak.
    “I hope that this will help in clarifying the difference between purely thermal anomalies and presumed LENR-related anomalies in the LION system.”

  • Bob Greenyer

    With support, we could do that in the x-ray phase analysis crystallography crucible at CEITEC – they can go up to 1500ºC and monitor with x-Ray microscope the phase change.

    At the moment, I think we can learn a lot by not moving too fast. Having said that, there are some fragments – but still need a accurate furnace or other suitable apparatus

  • Bob Greenyer

    LION 2 quartz colouration changes consistent with Exotic Vacuum Object (EVO) driven Deuteron fusion.

    Since Kenneth Shoulders established that EVOs emit 2KeV+ electrons (Beta particles) and fused deuterons make alphas, one only needs to understand ‘Gemstone Irradiation’, first done in 1905, to see where many of the colours are coming from.

    Quartz changes from clear to Brown, amethyst, “smoky” and rose

    https://goo.gl/BbSv5B https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d9caed583a7fb59c86fd7f8cb37b6723bd80944f7fd3ebb50055d3d102895bc8.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6e5eedde2db59d87cc19924077d9989b4bfa3bbe394a82b24f46cc25b173c7b5.jpg

    • Frost*

      Have you come across this site Bob http://www.minsocam.org/msa/collectors_corner/arc/gemxray.htm

      Gem stones irradiated with x-rays. (btw i found out yesterday that x-rays can be seen with the naked eye under the right conditions – yikes!!).

      What was the colour of that glow in Rossi’s quark reactor again?? 🙁

      • Bob Greenyer

        Nice reference.

    • Axil Axil

      What type of radiation is happening?

      We know it is not a gamma or neutrons because those would be detected with counters. The radiation is penetrating because the rose quartz is uniform in coloration. Alpha would be stopped shortly after it has entered the quartz so the colorization would be uneven. A why to test this is to put an alpha source from a smoke detector into a quartz tube and see if it turns rose in a uniform manor.

      Beta is possible, but the electron would need to be very fast to produce a uniform color? To test, put an anode inside a quartz tube and a cathode outside the tube and apply a high voltage DC tension. There might be a voltage that produces uniform coloration as seen in the LION reactor sample. Next, the particle may be muon, pion, kaon, or a neutral atomic fragment as seen in the Holmlid experiments with metallic hydrogen.

      I am interested to see if all the pixel failures that we are seeing in the hi res cameras are produced by exotic particles coming from the LION reactors. If the camera is being affected, it would be prudent to develop a map of the failed pixels and trace is additions pixel damage occurs over time. Can a map of pixel damage be produced by taking a high res picture of a white surface and look for color changes of red or green?

      • Bob Greenyer

        It is not Gamma or Neutrons, mostly because they don’t do this – the established technique is to use Beta and Alpha irradiation.

        I suggest that Alpha might make the cloudy aspect.

        I created a map of the wonky pixels when I did the original image, so that I can track if any more appear over time.

        My understanding is the LENR process is very penetrative.

        • Axil Axil

          ME356 said that all his electrical equipment did not function within 3 meters of his reactor. In the video of the ME356 reactor which showed his experiment in operation, the picture destabilized momentarily when the stimulus was applied to the reactor

          and Defkalion said that their reactor put their phone system out of commission throughout their building even when the reactor was inside a double Faraday cage.

          When replications of the LION reactor are run, I suggest checking for muons.

          • Bob Greenyer

            It is more than just muons (if there are indeed muons)

          • Axil Axil

            The kaons, pions, and the other mesons don’t travel far enough to exit the reactor because of their short decay times. Their is the possibility of neutral atomic fragments…heavy alpha particle clusters but they do not ionize electronics.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The main action happens in the copper

          • Axil Axil

            Holmlid has produced a muon detector that uses copper to canalize muons produced by Metallic hydrogen. The copper converts muons into fusion reactions. Then a particle detector counts particles produce by those fusion reactions.

            Why those muon canalized fusion reactions do not produce gamma is a issue. My best guess is that the muons are still entangled by the metallic hydrogen Bose condinsate and pass that fusion energy back to the condensate via that wormhole. Particles that the fusion produces are detectable.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            An apha particle is a 4He nucleus.

            Deuteron+Deuteron fusion produces an Alpha which then csptures 2 electrons to become 4He.

            For any fuel disc originated alpha to get to the quartz tube would require it to pass through the alumina fuel tube and then pass through the Cu oxide covering the outside of the alumina fuel tube.

            When the alumina tube broke, there may have been a window of opportunity for a stream of fuel disc generated alphas to directly reach the quartz tube and form the thin smokey white layer on the interior surface of the rose pink quartz section.

            BTW a strong understanding of science and physics is not a religious belief as physics is based on experimental data and science is a process to use experimental data to uncover that is real and what is not.

          • LION

            Hi Axil,
            thanks for all your thoughts and many contributions to LENR. I very much enjoy reading and considering your many Posts.
            I firmly believe that LENR must remain open to all who feel they can make a contribution.
            If Defkalion’s only contribution had been——:

            Defkalion said that their reactor put their phone system out of commission throughout their building even when the reactor was inside a double Faraday cage.

            The shareing of that information would still in my opinion be a fantastic and important contribution to the total Knowledge of LENR.
            Perhaps some of that group will reconstitute in a new form this year, who can say how much more they may yet contribute to this New Science.
            When things are New and Strange it is easy to TRASH.
            LISTENING most people find much more difficult. I am heartened that you are not one of them Axil.
            THANKS very much for sharing the Defkalion information.
            THANKS also to all who ever worked with Defkalion, every mind that has given serious consideration to this New Science should be remembered and their contribution Respected.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Defkalion’s claimed huge magnetic fields are certainly an interesting detail. Unfortunately, their reactor did not produce any excess heat when tested by Luca Gamberale. I recommend reading his report – it is a lesson for experimenters:

            https://animpossibleinvention.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/dgt-faulty-demo-140502-english.pdf

            BTW a Faraday cage is does not shield everything. For example, the Earth’s magnetic field can pass through without problems. Other kinds of fields are shielded more or less effectively, depending on factors like intensity and frequency.

          • Bob Greenyer

            We had our Scintillator and Power monitor saturate / drop out – during ‘Signal’

    • Stephen

      I just thought this link was interesting in that it explained the process for generating coloured quartz.

      The combination of irradiation in X-rays to make opaque black quartz followed by thermal treatment to bring out the transparent Colour.

      They get a wide range of colors but I dont think pink was amongst them.

      https://www.gemsociety.org/article/treating-quartz-color/

      Interestingly though I although pink quartz is not created in these examples it was used for making red quartz. They say that the pink in the pink quartz they used comes from impurities and inclusions in that material.

      But the temperatures they were using were for the heat treatments were quite a lot lower than used in the LION device. So maybe there is an impact there.

      • Bob Greenyer

        In the Wikipedia they say they can make rose quartz with irradiation.

        I get a strong sense that this is the reason for the colours and various levels of opaqueness/clarity. Then there is the Active agent that effectively masks areas off.

        • Stephen

          Yes and after closer reading I see that in the post I sent they do mention about using other radiation sources such as beta to find other colour effects.

          It’s really an artisans article rather than a scientific one… try and see what happens approach to make coloured quartz.

          But the technique irradiation then heating to get the effect looks quite compatible to the LION device and what we see in the quartz there.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Bob,

      Good to see you have accepted D+D fusion is occuring in LENR experiments using a highly deuterated lattice.

      As per McKubre the reaction is

      D+D > 4He + 23.8 MeV (heat).

      No alphas or high energy ionising radiation as otherwise the experimenters would be dead.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Possible, but since we do not know what the temperature actually was it might not lead to deeper insights. Note that there was only one thermocouple inside or near the reactor tube – that does not tell us much about the temperatures in other zones. The heater wires could have been much hotter than the interior of the reactor, for example.

    Another (not directly related) point results from the contamination of the material and the possible damage of the quartz tube, which certainly altered the thermal characteristics of the device. So we could not rely on an existent calibration, even if we had enough data.

  • sam

    In this thread from Lenr Forum Allan Smith has a couple comments about his meeting with Lion.
    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/5518-mfmp-lfh-lion2-100-replication-well-beyond-lion1/

  • Axil Axil

    A time for martyrs is nigh…

    The engineer’s opinion can’t be changed through logic or observation. It is a religious believe. This type of belief or meme is so strong that some will choose death over conversion. Those people are called martyrs.

    Bob will never move martyrs to adhere another meme.

    But there is something that will overcome a martyrs belief, and that is making money. If it could be shown that a meme makes money, then competitive pressure will force even a martyr to change his faith.

    As Rossi has often stated, people will not accept a meme unless it will make him money. MFMP is nonprofit and they are not well positioned to support a money making effort. MFMP can just spread the seed of the true LENR meme and wait for someone to make money with it.

    The meme that the engineer is espousing has not made any money for 28 years up to the present. When the engineer as a member of the old guard see all those around him are making money and he is not, then he will then and only then change his tune.

    • causal observer

      Let’s suppose your metaphor is about ego-deflation, instead of actual corporeal martyrdom.

      I think the spectrum is something like:

      business-person => engineer => scientist => mystic.

      and that you are conflating scientist with engineer.

      When things don’t work out, scientists just write another grant, engineers just move on to higher paying jobs, and business people just find another investment. They don’t usually choose actual martyrdom.

      History demonstrates that it’s mostly the mystics that end up as martyrs, and almost always just in terms of ego-deflation.
      However, the true mystics often just bounce back with a different version of the same story.

      Where are you and Bob on the spectrum?

      • causal observer

        And if your use of “martyr” alludes to Bob’s comment about “minds will be blown”, I think you under-estimate the mental resilience of people that want to accomplish real world results. I’m hoping O Day is a major breakthrough. If it is, I expect that it will be normalized faster than the Summer of Love turned into the Sonny and Cher show.

        • Bob Greenyer

          It will if people can handle it – I can, but I grew into it. I have trust that people will – but it will be a shock.

        • Axil Axil

          teleportation of matter through a wormhole will be hard for people to accept. Also clusters of transmutations of millions of atoms at one instant is also hard to beleive.

          • Steve H

            Not difficult for the majority of us who don’t intimately understand the original nuclear physics.
            We start with a clean slate!
            Must admit that following you guys sometimes feels like I am hanging on to an express train by my finger-nails, but exquisitley interesting, all the same.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I think I can make a good case – I was most of the way there a few days after the first analysis of Suhas Ralkars fuel and foil – but the closing argument was brought about by Hutchison and LION

      • Axil Axil

        The reference to Engineer in my post specially refers to Engineer48 and his posts here and elsewhere seeking to undermined Bob’s opinion about how LENR works. Even though Bob has not expressed an opinion directly, Engineer48 does not like the mew physics flavor of Bob’s drift and is seeking to get a head start on an argument to support the old guard fusion meme that will produce a storm of negative reactions from those would-be LENR experts.

        I don’t except mysticism. If a theory does not support the standard model, then it will not be accepted.

        Bob has an open mind but I hope that he does not embrace mysticism.

        • georgehants

          Evening Axil, agree with your observations re. Engineer, must just say that True science and logic demand that one must have completely open-mind and only the TRUTH must ever win over any belief.
          The standard model is just another excepted scientific belief and if Evidence shows it to be broken of wrong in it’s origin but confirms the proven Evidence of that model so far, then science must be immidiatly ready to except the new even if that is viewed as mystical by the establishment, as Einstein overruled but embraced the limited Newtonian theory of gravity.
          There can be no bias in science, no limits to the possible, Evidence rules and if that rule is broken then science is a complete failure.
          Best

          • Axil Axil

            TRUTH is a hard thing to determine. For example, fusion via compression inside a lattice has not been accepted by science, but fusion as catalyzed by muons might be accepted if science sees lots of muons coming out of the LENR reactor.

          • georgehants

            Axil, just an example of fair scientific reaction to the possible breaking of the standard model.
            If this was confirmed then it is just progress, one I think would waste one’s time mourning over that, but rejoice in the progress.
            Bob may do just that and we must be ready to celebrate if confirmed and not just debunk blindly.
            ———
            LHC Finds Particles That Defy The Standard Model Of Physics
            http://www.iflscience.com/physics/lhc-finds-particles-defying-standard-model-physics/

          • Engineer48

            Hi George,

            There is nothing here about breaking the Standard Model.

            What was observed was a slight variation in the decay rate of Tau and Muon Leptons.

            The Standard Model is not set in concrete as example it is unknown why there are 3 ranks of fermions. Explaining that will not break the Standard Model but instead add new chapters.

            So sorry George but the Standard Model is not broken nor is it going away.

          • georgehants

            engineer, you seem to be unable to read, nowhere did I say the standard model was broken.
            Your statement “nor is it going away.” is scientifically incompetent unless you are a mystic that can foresee the future.
            Goodbye permanently, I can learn nothing from you.

        • Stephen

          Before modern understanding of EM and gravity. Many Ancient civilizations thought of spirit as a kind of flowing energy whether it was an internal awareness of atunement and discorde or observation of nature.

          It does not take mysticism or superstition to understand it. For hundreds of thousands of years they thought of energy as they understood it in spirit in terms of fluid flows and balanced which have a lot in analogy to what we call physical energy flows today. A lot of their geometry and art reflects their attempts to understand this and the analogies can indeed be useful to us in other aspects today.

          If basically underlying everything energy and how it flows of is experessed in geometry Is important. Those insights might be closer to the truth than we expect.

          It’s not superstition at all it’s understanding what people thought about energy and it’s express in a different way.

          We might learn something more than we expected

          • Axil Axil

            Mysticism satisfies the human need for an explanation even when the mechanism of the process is beyond the understanding of the person. We cannot give up and say that the aliens did it.

            This is why it is important to poke at what we don’t understand until the process fits into our paradigm.

            Bob will show people what they won’t understand and they SHOULD poke at it until they do understand.

          • Stephen

            I fully agree with your intended point here and 100% agree with your last sentence.

            I think physics is trying to understand the patterns and maths behind things. And the root of that is 1000’s if years old before our current understanding.

            It’s where we become superstitious that problems can arise. Lack of understanding of another’s truth can apear as superstition even if it is not.

            But truth can also be much more than we expect in the end.

          • Axil Axil

            I’ve run accross this article about Mike Taggett’s metallic hydrogen research, dated 2018-01-18. LENR is not the only process that holds no interest for science.

            http://www.thespectrum.com/sto…-solar-system/1044139001/

            “The discovery is extremely cutting edge, and it’s in its early stages. Taggett said he “doesn’t know where it’s going to go,” but the first step is getting more scientists to research the phenomenon.

            The response Taggett has gotten from experts at universities across the country has been similar: “No way.””

        • Engineer48

          Hi Axil,

          My comments about how highly deuterated lattices produce D+D > 4He + 23.8 MeV (heat) is from McKubre and others 1,500 man years of effort to understand what is causing the excess heat.

          I find it amazing you can ignore all that experimental work and effort?

          • Axil Axil

            d + d -> He4 + 23.8 MeV

            but although the energy release is large, this is an EM reaction with a correspondingly low cross section. The more common reactions are
            d + d -> He3 + n + 3.3 MeV
            and
            d + d -> T + p + 4.0 MeV

            Where are the high and low energy gammas, the tritium, the neutrons and the protons?

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            I’m glad you uncovered the other 2 D+D fusion end results.

            Those other 2 reactions, releasing either a proton or a neutron apparently do occur in a very highly compressed lattice.

            Those locally freed protons and neutrons are what drives the transmutations of the nearest highly compressed lattice atoms.

          • Axil Axil

            Where is the He3 and tritium?

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            Both have been detected.

            Read McKubre.

          • Axil Axil

            But all components of the fusion reaction results must away present at the precise proportions as theory dictates.

            You remember what Feynman said about experimentation and your desires?

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            My info source is the 1,500 man years of LENR experimental data. Amazing resource. I dig through the data from actual experiments to form my opinions.

            Here are the 3 most common D+D reaction changes.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/693526bd3e8192d66a0ac634753e3ff574fd34488251c9ecbdda35d82ee0523c.jpg

            No escaping neutrons nor protons nor gamma are observed to exit the lattice.

            Instead 3He, 4He and Tritium is detected plus 23.8 MeV of lattice heating and transmutations driven by the neutron and proton emissions.

            This takes the unique enviroment of a highly compressed lattice state, which is about as far away from what occurs in a star as it can be.

            Also understand a highly compressed lattice state will only occur deep in the lattice and not at the edges.

            Which is supported by the data showing that very high lattice loading ratio D/Pd nucleus is required as it is not a surface effect but an effect that needs the high lattice compression that can only occur inside the lattice.

          • Axil Axil

            If a highly compressed lattice based reaction were real, would it compete with the QX? By the way, the Rossi’s patent does not say that deuterium is used in any of Rossi;s reactors.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            I believe the QX rods are designed to be high Q phonon resonators.

            H+H fusion yields deuterium. Easier to start with a deuterated lattice and use D gas for the glow discharge. But sure use H to keep the punters guessing. Suggest you read the Rossi patent claims very carefully.

            Plus the 100kHz QX signal is what to expect from a resonant rod a cm or so long.

          • Axil Axil

            If you go through the Rossi patent again, and if you find any reference to deuterium, post it here to bolster your suppositions.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            H+H fusion produces deuterium as one of the joined together protons flips to a neutron while emitting a neutrino and a positron.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            Here are the patent claims. Nothing else has any effect.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/aadd49f0bd80c04001f29354c55f03a7a8bb4ed06ef6d956797b5bffea32be81.png

            He states the much claimed “Rossi fuel mix” is there to produce H2 gas. Nothing more.

            Frank has stated the QX he saw was inside a clear tube. Had LiH4Al been used as a way to produce H2 gas, the tube would not be clear but covered in a film of Li and Al. But it was not.

            So it seems the QX may not be using the patent H gas generation method.

            Rossi also told Frank the Ni rods had been processed but did not explain further.

          • Axil Axil

            Like LION, Rossi uses a fuel preparation process where Ultra dense hydrogen is created. Rossi loads that UDH into his QX so no LiAiH4 finds it way into the QX. UDH is mobile and long lived.

          • Axil Axil

            There has been 150,000 man years of research and experimentation done by nuclear engineers done to discredit the assumptions made by LENR about fusion in LENR.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            So what?

            The 1,500 man hours and the summary analysis by McKubre make it very clear that D+D > 23.8 MeV (heat) is occuring.

            McKubre, upon retiring from SRI, stated that creating excess heat was boring. As long as you followed the rules developed via the 1,500 man years of experimental data, creating excess heat was done & dusted.

  • Alan Smith

    @Bruce_H. “”Good thing about alpha and beta is that they don’t get through cm of Alumina foam” Right now for you this is a terrible tragedy. Beta radiation being emitted by a rig like this would lend all the claims of you and LION instant credibility.

    Very unfair comment. Of course Alphas and Betas won’t get through the foam. But there is plenty of information about other penetrative particles escaping from the system.

    • Bruce__H

      I don’t understand. Why is this an unfair comment? Should you not expect some to be emitted down the length of the tube? If the process emits beta radiation then please detect some. It would be good for a paper in Nature wouldn’t it?

      Why do LENR researchers so diligently try to avoid measuring nice big fat signals that would prove their case? Everyone seems to try and avoid runaway reactions too whereas they should be encouraging them. Is that an unfair comment?

      • Axil Axil

        What is beta radiation? It is electrons. The LION reactor produced 36,000 joules of power after it cooled off. How can all that power come from 10 diadisks? That makes beta radiation look like well …unimportant.

        That is 3000 amps or about 10^21 electrons. That is a lot of beta rays.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Axil,

          And how many Joules are needed to fully charge the series super cap?

          J = 1/2 F x V^2

          Assuming 1F super cap we have 0.5 x 144 = 72 J.

          So how did the claimed 36,000 Joules flow through the series lamp and super cap circuit as current flow would stop when the super cap was fully charged?

          For 36,000 Joules to flow, the super cap would need to be at least 500F.

          • Axil Axil

            I should have explicitly said that those 36000 joules came from the LION I reactor.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            What was rhe super cap polarity in the series circuit?

            That will tell the direction of electron flow.

            Plus if less than 500F, 36,000 J could not have flowed.

            BTW a 12vdc 500F supercap is very big. The picture I saw looked more like a 1F unit, which would fully charge after 72J and then no more current flow would occur.

            Here is a 16vdc 500F supercap:

            https://www.digikey.com.au/product-detail/en/maxwell-technologies-inc/BMOD0500-P016-B02/1182-1029-ND/3079293

            Don’t think Lion used one of those to enable the 36,000 J flow.

          • Axil Axil

            A 20 watt bulb for 30 minutes, the supercap not withstanding.

            The current when from reactor to ground.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            You miss the point.

            With a cap in series with the lamp, current flow will stop when the cap is fully charged.

            For 36,000 Joules to have flown in the circuit, the super cap would need to be rated at 500F at 12 Vdc.

            In the image I saw, the object looked like a 1F super cap, which would stop current flow once it was fully charged with 72 Joules.

            This calls into serious question the claim that a 12 vdc 20W lamp was working at normal light intensity for 30 minutes.

            A 1F 12Vdc super cap would light the bulb for 3.6 sec and not for 1,800 sec.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Strangely, a supercap is not mentioned in Bob G’s slides (apologies to Bob if I should be wrong). Anyway, we know far too little about this “post experiment test”. There are various imaginable scenarios, some of which seem more, others less plausible:

            1. A malfunction of the connected equipment.
            2a. Energy from a supercap was released.
            2b. Release of energy stored by the device.
            3. Energy came from outside.
            4. An “undefined” effect.

            Re 1: Alan S says it is unlikely, but I would prefer control measurements. Maybe LION could check his equipment for leaks.

            Re 2a: Possible if either the cap was very large, or the rating of the light bulb was lower than reported. We need more information about the components and a diagram of the setup. Among others, it is important to know if the reactor had a ground connection at any point.

            Re 2b: Difficult to judge since the input energy over the whole experiment was certainly higher than 36 kJ. Maybe somebody has an idea. I think that static electricity is unlikely because the output was reportedly steady, but a conversion of chemical to electric energy (as in a battery) seems possible.

            Re 3: In principle, an effect like the described one could be caused by a strong external EM/RF signal. Very unlikely, except that LION lives in the immediate neighbourhood of a radio sender or a military base.

            Re 4: Opens the path to a wide field of speculations. So I think that examining the other points first would be the most reasonable option.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Andreas,

            Search as I may but can’t find the video showing the bulb and cap.

            Do you have a link?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I don’t. Slides with Bob’s report about LION’s experiment are here:

            https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A3ARK3jstpyB1jfcRhR-zhRMhd2aNLux/view

            The original video is in his thread:

            http://e-catworld.com/2018/01/19/mining-diamonds-with-lion-new-mfmp-video/

            A supercap video was mentioned by some reader, but I do not recall that there was a link.

      • Alan Smith

        Hi Bruce. The unfair part (I thought) was that you seemed to think that there is some kind of conspiracy not to measure radiation. Absolutely not true – it is the first signal I and many other researchers look for. The failure of Alpha and (lower energy) betas to pass through the alumina is a fact of physics which is inconvenient – but there it is. Not a conspiracy or lack of willingness to observe and measure. I currently have 2 geigers, muon detector, alpha probe, and (courtesy MFMP) 2 neutron tube which will be deployed to maximum effect.

        As for runaways, they are very problematic as research tools- they often allow for very little collection of data. A sign something is happening but often one that does not reveal the trigger.

        An example. I have run a light-water/carbon system which will sulk for variable numbers of days before suddenly producing beta radiation, anomalous heat and then busting the tank. Very messy. We have no idea what triggers it beyond time, have tried boosting all the known variables to see if we can trigger it at will without success. So we gave up on it – not useful. Like having an IC engine that it prone to bursting into life at random moments and revving itself to destruction.

        As for publication in mainstream journals, I know professors of physics at major institutions who have failed to get good LENR papers into Nature etc. So for now at least, you can forget that. Sadly.

  • Bob Greenyer

    MFMPs Hutchison Effect sample 21 ‘Spanner’ has a mark on it just beyond deformation that has a striking resemblance to the ‘Jewel’ in LION 2 – even the spot in the centre and the notch at the end line up – however the ‘Jewel’ has lost a bit during breakout.

    In addition to this, and the usual sprinkling of small ‘spheres’, characteristic of the process – there is another striking similarity, two oval touching craters. With at least one in each case sporting a 3 point structure. Will take clearer photo of the Hutchison one tomorrow.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/935ca14f341c48958ce87e131fecefd0a183c7833dda62be51aabcb81eb6b72d.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1ebd648830be875b0d61a6adb560a0fdc52a23f9bed71eafa508b85166cca852.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e06b950ae3f2ea7c86b2b29ef4494faa4e364f280cc76aebc27e29b2420117cb.gif https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/140e481569911cb8fcbc37bc1901d8a48a6fe4094090868c9fb2c5b391e0bf27.png

    • Axil Axil

      In the Hutchison Effect, bending the metal using the projection of specially formatted EMF may not all be centered on nuclear processes. The electrons in the metal lattice could be disrupted whereby the metal loses its rigidity.

      But there seem to be some transmutation involved in the Hutchison effect similar if not identical to LENR.

      The bending of metal and the amount of transmutation seem to be collocated at the bend in the metal.

      • Bob Greenyer

        The transmutations are identical, the same, no different to LENR – it is the same process and has the same signatures.

      • Bob Greenyer

        The LENR active components can literally be of any size up or down.

        Hutchison’s materials can be effected in the centre, most often the centre of the centre due to resonant based building of the active structure . Often though it occurs at discontinuities, including the surface – basically anywhere there is an impedance change.

        The active structures conduct, that is why he never saw much of an effect unless he had the samples on an insulator. The air was normally dry, which is important for the build up of static as Tesla and Henry Moray established.

        Once the active structures are at a suitable scale they can influence all types of matter caught in their fields and things can also be carried with things that are more affected. Due to lack of conductivity, biological materials are less affected however, there is a famous video of the effect cutting a carrot clean in two.

  • Bob Greenyer

    It is not just pink – this well established process replicates many of the colours observed.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I am not sure I have seen through the thickness colour changes in any of the controls run yet – please point me to the photos in case I have missed them, thankyou.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Radiation did expose the x-rays, that is already done – I will explain what I expect to be present in ‘O Day’

  • Bob Greenyer

    I had a brief look at it, I will take photos tomorrow.

    LION 1 had 10 Diapad discs in it and was not claimed to have self-sustained. But it did have the best ever strange radiation track in it! So it was undergoing the process, but the active agents were FAR smaller.

    LION 2 apparently had 25 discs in, and I have recovered around 18 so far.

    When you understand the process – 1 disc should do – it is just an ovary

  • Da Phys

    EVOs are known as Rydberg Matter by mainstream physicists. For example, ball lightning consists of Rydberg Matter as firstly pointed out by the father of Rydberg Matter, the Russian Manykin. Under certain conditions, Rydberg Matter of hydrogen condenses into an ultra-dense form with magnetic dipole-dipole attraction able to compensate for Coulomb repulsion at the Compton scale as shown by Barut in the 1980s. Recently, Holmlid has provided strong evidence that ultra-dense hydrogen can decay into mesons via the weak force. These mesons are relativistic and highly penetrating, the “mischugenons” of Russ George or “strange radiations” observed by many. Their energy lies close to the minimum of the Bethe-Bloch curve, the reason why they are so difficult to observe. However, a dense material such as copper can stop a very small proportion of them. Very small but still large enough to produce large amount of heat as already and beautifully shown by, again, Holmlid. My O-Day.

    • Axil Axil

      Holmlid has also stated that he believes that LENR is produced by metallic hydogen. In the case of the LION reaction, I beleive he is right. The diadisks somehow are producing ultra dense deuterium (UDD) and this crystal produces the LENR reaction, This O-day presentation should show what UDD can do.

      There are other ways to produce the LENR reaction besides UDD, but UDD is the stuff that the LENR fuel preparation process generates.

      • Da Phys

        It depends on how you define “metallic hydrogen”. RM of hydrogen is metallic in the sense that it shares some electromagnetic properties such as good conductivity with metals. On the other hand, its ultra-dense form should not be mixed with “metallic hydrogen” as defined by Wigner and Hutchinson in 1935, i.e. at high pressure and temperature.
        I agree with you that the diadisks have exactly all necessary properties to produce UDD. Not by chance IMHO.

        • Axil Axil

          UDD is superconductive, and so is metallic hydrogen. Is that connection or common behavior imply anything?

          Experiments show that UDD, is highly resistant to intrusion.

          When the UDD is added to the surface of metal, it takes 60-70 seconds for the laser to penetrate through — 200-300 percent longer than if the laser was penetrating the metal alone.

          Does that imply anything bout UDD?

          • Da Phys

            Metallic hydrogen is not made of molecules but of a solid lattice of protons with the electrons delocalized. OTOH ultra-dense hydrogen remains made of molecules with a distance between two protons in the pm range. The latter can form clusters, most probably toroidal ones because presenting similar characteristics as a plasma. I agree though that both are superconductive.
            But I think we digress from the main conjecture I made which is that EVOs, spheromaks, Hutchinson effect, LENR, Fleischmann&Pons PdD may be different appellations of, or at least have as common ground, what is known as Rydberg Matter in physics.

  • Engineer48

    Hi Bruce,

    Indeed.

    Do really want Alan to show a good, clear & very significant COP. However as there are many question marks, I’m not holding my breath.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Open my eyes by shutting them? Riiiiiiiight.

    Melting with heat does not cause transmutations. There are transmutations in LION and Hutchison.

    Melting with heat does not form these structures – ‘balls’ in pits, rings, guitar pick shapes, mirrored double arrows and fusion of dissimilar materials – but LION and Hutchison effect samples do.

    The sample above was produced with the equipment I have seen, videoed and shared in Germany and a VDG at about 15 feet from active area. Since it is all repaired now, we hope to run a replication there later in the year (no earlier than May as that lab has other things in it). Where will your stance be if I get a chance to record pushing my hand into jellied aluminium as Alex Pezzaro did in Vancouver or as one of Dr. Egely’s witnesses told him he was able to do with an aluminium window frame on a train that was touched by ball lightening or as Ralph Ring did when he was first being shown tesla based technology by Otis T Carr or as the Russians could do as observed by Tom Bearden’s representatives in 1992?

    Some of the other, earlier samples were produced with a good Uranium ore in place which was used as a Alpha / Beta source – which is very interesting, since that is exactly what appears to be being produced by LION core, given the colour changes to non-contacted quartz.

    Sources of this kind was also used by Papp – these help nucleate EVOs and we know from MFMPs 2013 Celani wire tests and 2015 ‘Signal’ that we saw evidence that supports Shoulders findings of high energy beta emissions from EVOs.

    It is not ‘matching biases’ it is based on factual evidence won over years of hard work and actually not starting out with the premise that X-Y and Z are frauds because my physics professor told me these things were impossible.

  • Bob Greenyer
  • artefact

    An interesting page that seems close to what Bob is hinting at:

    http://holofractal.net/the-

    … “At the center of the torus topology we find the singularity, zero volume (or 0-dimension), the point where extreme space-time curvature balance out creating perfect vacuum. Here the space-time structure converges to minimum amount of vectors for stability, creating twelve converging lines of a cubeoctahedron. All forces balance out evenly in a complete equilibrium at this point, creating stillness and absolute zero degrees.”
    … “The fractal-holographic universe is composed of black holes – singularities –”
    … “Zero volume and infinite potential can be expressed mathematically as a geometric fractal structuring the space-time manifold. The pattern repeats in harmonic intervals, or frequencies, creating natural dimensions of the vacuum that follows the golden ratio -Phi –”
    … “A continuously collapsing fractal structure generates torque in the universe and organizes energy / matter in harmonic enclosed rotating toroidal systems”
    … “Conclusion: In the end the unified view presents us with a world in which we are all united through a fractal geometry of spacetime, intrinsically connecting all things via the infinite vacuum medium. This fundamental understanding of reality truly promises to unite the countless fields of Human endeavor, from spiritual understanding to technological engineering, and lift them all to a completely new level. With this knowledge we may understand more deeply our communion with each other and with Nature, and develop technologies that utilize the primordial power of the Universe to lift our collective consciousness beyond the Earth and into the stars.”

    • georgehants

      Thanks artefact, below Bob’s reply, important to connect it to your post, I think
      ————–

      Bob Greenyer artefact • 13 minutes ago

      I had not seen that post.

      He is close.

      He is right in his conclusions.

      The world is going to change.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I would add, that the photos / SEMs etc I have shares of NOVA, ECCO, Hutchison and LION are proof – Nassim, it would appear, is very close.

        And there is more in those images and the EDS data shared from last years work, that shows you the truth, no maths required – look closer…

        • georgehants

          Bob, it would seem that Nassim would be very interested in your “O” day, may be worth trying to contact him.
          Great find artefact.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I think you are right.

    • TomR

      Thank you for the link, Artefact. Thank you Bob, for all you are doing. Thank you George, for your posts lately. I also agree with you and Bob that a meeting of the minds between Bob and Nassim Haramein might be a very good thing.

      • georgehants

        TomR thank you, exciting times, always good to see your comments.

  • georgehants

    Bob, hexagons can be seen everywhere because they are for some reason the fundamental basis of everything?

  • Bob Greenyer

    ‘O Day’ will provide ample evidence of it’s central point.

    LION, Shoulders, Adamenko, Ralkar, Nova all prove that Hutchison was right – and the photos of his samples prove they are not fakes.

    Use every skill in your workshop and try to create circles that have a central point that are themselves surrounded by equidistant circles that have a central point with transmutation corresponding to the shapes. I’d be genuinely interested to see if you can replicate this physical proof.

    NOVA produced ‘spheres’ with signatures of the effect – same as LION, same as Hutchison – I’d very much like to know if you can replicate that.

  • Bob Greenyer

    This is vapour deposition – something we are all too familiar with due to our 2 years of Celani wire testing.

    LION 2 is materially different – it has through the body of the quartz colour changes that are in many cases homogeneous.

    VERY VERY different

  • Alan Smith

    No offence intended, but perhaps that is because you are not an experimenter. Big bangs on D&F’s lab never convinced anyone, not the explosion at SRI. I have seen exploded Rossi dogbones and I understand his frustration. I am as interested (or more interested) in learning how to stop reactions as I am in learning how to start them.

  • artefact

    From MFMP:

    LION 1 – Quartz Liner

    “The quartz Liner from the LION 1 reactor shows the same striking through
    the material changes and spin vortex / circles and spirals on circles
    signatures of the underlying process”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enQhQUiZzJY

  • Bob Greenyer

    LION 1 – Quartz Liner

    If anyone was in any doubt that LION 2 was a 100% replication of LION 1, this should help.

    The Liner from the LION 1 reactor shows same striking through material changes and spin vortex / circles and spirals on circles signatures of the underlying process.

    32bit per RGB channel version can be downloaded from here
    https://goo.gl/XBrEBD

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1aa1aeea0b605f1a236a926163fcc81cd5dadb92ad776c72a6dd909273ab813a.jpg

    https://youtu.be/enQhQUiZzJY

  • Axil Axil

    the hexagon shape produces balance, maximums and minimums in nature. the hexagon shape provides the maximum area has the minimum expenditure of materials and energy. Engineers will confirm that a hexagonal structure also provides the maximum strength.

    http://nautil.us/issue/35/boundaries/why-nature-prefers-hexagons

    • Bob Greenyer

      All valid points. Thanks Axil.

  • Bob Greenyer

    LION 1 – Inside of dual spiral vortex shows outside hexagon shape on left and 120º cracks on right

    Two smaller hexagons on right.

    Many other ‘Two Spot’ features at different scales

    32 bit per RGB channel file can be downloaded from here
    https://goo.gl/xRxoyU

    Attempt will be made later to get a closer shot https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fffc09737cc71bf26fafd7b6d4975723abfdbbc125fdbdc78f3178f2ffc81142.jpg

    • Axil Axil

      Silicon dioxide, also known as silica (from the Latin silex), is an oxide of silicon with the chemical formula SiO2, most commonly found in nature as quartz

      Boiling point 2,950 °C (5,340 °F; 3,220 K)

      The feature pictured is hole that has had material removed. What process excavated the hole, vaporization of quartz or some other process?

      On the other side of the quartz hole is the Cauliflower. This feature looks like vapor has bubbled through the quartz in two separate prominences.

      There are smaller reaction effects on the right side bottom in a line that looks to have produced melt feature on the reverse side of the quartz which also includes bubbling. The green coloration of the quartz may be the result of radiation or particle effects on the lattice structure of the quartz. These small reaction features show no vaporization of quartz but yet the lattice damage and melting on the reverse side is actioned.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1aa1aeea0b605f1a236a926163fcc81cd5dadb92ad776c72a6dd909273ab813a.jpg?w=600&h=393

      • Bob Greenyer

        It is perfectly smooth on the outside at this point, all of the changes have happened within the thickness of the quartz – it is easier to see in the video linked below.

  • Bob Greenyer
    • Axil Axil

      The reaction features seem to be bubbles. Is there any correlation with features between this bubbling that appear on the reverse side of the quartz?

    • Axil Axil

      The green surface coloration seems to be composed of multiple layers of separate reaction planes near the circle of bubbles. I remember seeing similar shaped transmutation features when viewing the ME356 SEM pictures. Those planes of shading in carbon were most likely produced by isotopic change in the carbon substrate.

      The shading of green might be produced through particle base lattice damage as various waves of LENR active processes affected the same area.

  • Bob Greenyer
    • Axil Axil

      The Quatrz green coloration might provide a way to detect where the particle flux was intense. The tube seems to more heavily colored near both ends. This concentration of particle activity might have been caused by the magnetic field produced by the heater wire wrap or induced current in the copper wrap on the surface of the reactor.

      http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/imgmag/sol3.gif

      The particles might have been charged and near the end of the Solenoid wire wrap, the magnetic field tends to move out of the tube from their axial path.

      A charged particle will orbit the magnetic field lines and only exit the tube when the magnetic field lines exit the tube which will occur at the ends of the Solenoid wire wrap.

      http://www.schoolphysics.co.uk/age16-19/Atomic%20physics/Electron%20physics/text/Electron_motion_in_electric_and_magnetic_fields/images/5.png

      • Bob Greenyer

        The bits at the ends are mostly superficial inside and could be vapour deposition.

        • Axil Axil

          It would be revealing to determine if the green color is produced by vapor deposits or quartz lattice damage.

          But copper deposits would color quartz, red and black.

          The same magnetic movement of metallic (copper?) ions to the ends of the tube still apply.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The main affected green area is through the quartz full transformation, there is colouration and damage.

            If caused by beta (shoulders 2-50KeV EVO emissions + Higher energy on breakdown) and Alpha (from DD fusion) then there is over 100 years of research on exposing Quartz to Alpha and Beta in the literature as it is a technique used in the jewellery industry.

            By the way, in case you did not catch it, Hutchison used a good Uranium ore as a alpha/beta emitter to stimulate his effect.

  • Axil Axil

    The heavy green coloration on the quartz at the meltdown location in the center of the tube might indicate a breakout or particle burst during the meltdown that overwhelming the axial magnetic field lines that would usually directed the particle emissions from the reaction.

  • Axil Axil

    The green coloration at the end of the LION reactor tube also appears in the Alan Smith control run but the green color was less densely deposited.

    • Bob Greenyer

      probably carbon / tar from the copper wire.

    • Alan Smith

      There is only surface discolouration inside the control tubes so far. The ‘witches brew’ I have cooking now may reveal more.

  • Bob Greenyer

    LION 1 – Changed quartz edge https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33eae3354292e3d9186045b47c2e4d59314eb8e710846482086a0d0f3a9295c3.jpg

    Quite clearly, as in LION 2, not a surface effect

    • causal observer

      1) Alternative explanations from conventional science: plenty of variety at a range of temperatures weill within the LION protocol.
      https://www.gemsociety.org/article/treating-quartz-color/
      2) Do you have equipment for spectrographic analysis? Will you point it at that?

      • Bob Greenyer

        I mentioned that process a day or two ago.

      • Axil Axil

        All the alternative explanations from conventional science requires gamma irradiation which has not been detected in the LION reactor.

        • causal observer

          The link above clearly states gamma, X-rays or electrons.

          • Axil Axil

            The LION reactor did produce electons, but the color induced by electrons according to the link is yellow, brown, or black…not green.

  • Bob Greenyer
  • Engineer48

    Bob,

    You may wish to consider this guide as to what makes a good scientific theory:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2018/02/15/what-separates-a-good-scientific-theory-from-a-bad-one/#473123742a42

  • georgehants

    Neutrons Reveal the Wild Weyl World of Semimetals
    The Weyl semimetal state is induced when the opposing motions of the
    electrons cause the Dirac cones to split in two (illustrated on the left
    by outward facing electrons, opposite the inward facing electrons on
    the right). The abnormal state enables greater electrical flow with
    minimal resistance.
    http://www.newswise.com/doescience/?article_id=689796&returnurl=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubmV3c3dpc2UuY29tL2FydGljbGVzL2xpc3Q=

  • Engineer48

    The power of chemistry:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/92a0912f9b5818a9fe74e9dd5222ad02e338480148a9692ea9f13c2ecf19b719.png

    Lets hope some here see what they seek in all the shapes inside this piece of quartz.
    .

  • Bob Greenyer

    LION 1 – Spiral removal of Quartz from inside of LION 1 tube furnace liner in shape of ‘Jewel’ from LION 2, viewed through the quartz from outside.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/afabe54f4b66da58a95ca9866d30edb5f50a1f73cb6c36bd55e5771357769ba8.jpg

  • Bob Greenyer

    LION 1 – Rotating features touching and changing the nature of the quartz.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a04466e44622c874ebc903f46a1256a945d75fa55ea4dadfb2b1e5cad5f67622.png

  • Bob Greenyer

    LION 1 – ‘Anti-Jewel’, dark feature showing same structure as ‘Jewel’ from LION 2 and feature for MFMP 2008 Hutchison sample 21 – ‘Spanner’

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dc6cfb1bb07c0f99fc1a912150e43433a6439af1f6121d05c5c97a2d7e5d122c.png

    • artefact
      • Bob Greenyer

        Yes artefact, and what do you see in the upper left orange circle?

        What does it mean?

        • artefact
        • Bob Greenyer

          Also, what do you see in the the top right… How does the top right feature compare with the right most shape in the spiral cut out from the glass in the image below.

        • keenant

          Hi Bob, artefact

          I have added some extra annotations (still uncertain about triangle directions), possible relation to the ying yang symbol?

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/20981ea55d4a9510880d76cac2f4e027187667930d463c82d642e8ff025e99b2.png

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1b8cf9f977d3bce857da1b59b78a0eaba247e28d3a24c309b3c7175f71f5b614.jpg

          • Bob Greenyer

            VERY VERY GOOD!!!!

            Yet another of you REALLY LOOKING AND THINKING

            Well done, you get mentioned in ‘O Day’

            What does the symbol mean?

            NO

            What does it really stand for?

            Why is the white in black and vice versa?

            NO

            What does it REALLY MEAN?

          • artefact

            They describe how seemingly opposite or contrary forces may actually be complementary, interconnected, and interdependent in the natural world.

          • Bob Greenyer

            That is the base level, which is true.

            What is the underlying message?

            Think cycle, what is the cycle, how can it help us?

            What is the cause of he cycle?

          • artefact

            Even contrary forces can become one (?).
            The circle makes them one. Without circling they would be two things and not one.

          • Bob Greenyer

            No that.

            The Yin Yang symbol is only part of a graphic that tells a clear cycle story. What is the cycle?

          • Frost*

            Positive to negative & vice versa.

          • keenant

            Thanks Bob, this common detail had been bothering me for sometime almost subconsciously. I will have to research Ying yang more thoroughly to get an intuition as to the relevance.

            But some initial thoughts are that it is formed from a spiral, and the small dots could be a fractal of more ying yangs.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Not – bad – keep going

  • Bob Greenyer

    LION 1 – ‘Squiggle’ feature on quartz shows active structure breakdown, displacement and periodic rest, perhaps movement caused by LION 1s heater coil being periodically switched ON/OFF.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6d95936fa1f8c1aceb6d3fe81cfa3ebbf3eb528dd23494498e01cc469b583513.png

  • Bob Greenyer
  • Bob Greenyer

    LION 1 – On right side, the ‘Canopy’ part of an active structure travels, splits with parts travelling in exactly opposite directions.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8b45cf2c54f3283fe60ba23dec2f234b1ace47fc88cb3881039700f7b8bf536e.jpg

  • Bob Greenyer

    They are fractal at every scale – you will know this after ‘O Day’ if you havn’t got it by then.

    They are everywhere on LION 1 & 2 – this is one way I could say that LION 2 was 100% replication of LION 1 and KNOW that it was LENR without putting it under the microscope, since LION 1 had best ever strange radiation track, this and ‘spheres’ are some of the many tells in ECCO, NOVA, Hutchison, Shoulders, Adamenko.

    LENR is done – it will just take a few people some time to come to terms with this.

    • Stephen Taylor

      As long as LION replication is successful you are right. Bob, what do you suppose the most immediate and useful function will be aside from turning our understanding of the universe on its ear.

      • Bob Greenyer

        In the words of Kenneth Shoulders, 2010

        “You name something that you want, that you need to be good, and it’d probably be the thing that does it for you.”

        https://steemit.com/dtube/@mfmp/nzssv2y3

        • georgehants

          Afternoon Bob, Peace, Equal opportunity and Caring and Sharing, all possible with the knowledge and technology we have at present and past.
          The only thing, I think can change things it not more resources or wealth but an immaterial awareness of a higher purpose.
          Do you think that is something that your potential discovery can help to achieve?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes

        • Stephen Taylor

          Having seen the video there was more understanding from reading the transcript. Thanks.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I learnt so much over these past few years by really listening and not judging first.

            Ken was a Maverick – but he KNEW that he had NO RIGHT to patent this technology – and why will be all to clear.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Bob,

      On the nuclear level you need to explain:

      Why the lattice needs to be very highly deutetated

      How 4He is produced

      How 23.8 MeV of heat is released per 4He atom creation.

      How D+D gets close enough to combine

      Where do the protons snd neutrons come from that transmute the elements

      Why are almost no alpha, beta, gamma, neutron nor proton emissions measured?

      Why are sone alpha, beta, gamma, neutron and/or proton emissions measured?

  • Bob Greenyer

    The process masks itself with sub-atomic accuracy

    It ‘infects’ other materials

    If there is a cut line because of the masking attribute, it prefers not to go across the impedance discontinuity.

    Nearly every square millimetre of the quartz near LION 1 core has small active players starting to work on it.

    As I said last year – you need new kinds of approaches to contain this.

    Flowing water against metal as in ECCO is one.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Very good – keep looking.

    • artefact

      Both of them look not round but more like pentagons or hexagons.

      • Bob Greenyer

        They will be an orientation of a fractally structured geometric body based on the platonic solids.

        Most of their silhouettes look like a hexagon with some distortion an pulling due to spin – this is why you see it throughout nature.

  • Bob Greenyer

    On the jewels – which have 60º long edges – there is pretty much another facing the other way at 30º offset to the normal – all of the ‘jewels’ and ‘anti-jewels’ have this feature (amongst many others)and it is recursive.

  • Bob Greenyer

    You are doing very well – each large image I have shared has many of these ‘tells’ at many scales – both macro and micro structures – I did not want to tell people what they were – I wanted them to see them for themselves.

    Look at ‘squiggle’ and ‘canopy’ – what are they telling you?

  • Is O-Day going to be all theory?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Mostly proof. Mostly visual. When you get it, you’ll wonder why you didn’t before.

      • Proof of significant excess heat?
        Or proof of your EVO theory?

        • Bob Greenyer

          I don’t have a theory.

          I made a realisation – That realisation explains all observed/reported phenomena in the field.

          This is most certainly NOT a discovery and could NEVER be called an invention.

          • That can and will be deployed/reproduced by MFMP to demonstrate unambiguous excess heat, yes?

            The rest is just chatters.

          • Bob Greenyer

            This will produce heat and it will self sustain – I can say that with 100% certainty.

            It will also produce EXTREME cold.

          • Awesome! Looking forward to that live data stream!

            March? Later? Sooner?

          • Bob Greenyer

            When it is ready. I really don’t want to have to explain the same things over and over again – if I was getting paid by the hour, it might be wise, but I am a volunteer, so better preparation means less ra ra ra later.

          • Stephen

            Yes Bob, this is important so do it when you feel you are ready.

            I its pretty apparent this walk through and discovery process and laying the groundwork is important.

            A complete shift in thinking and perspective even if obvious in retrospect can be hard to process if presented in one go.

          • Bob Greenyer

            With the amount of info in ‘O Day’ and its profound implications, it needs background otherwise it will be total information overload.

            The central aspect is easy to get, if not to accept, but it is the implications that will shock people. The raft of evidence should leave the participant in the process with no doubt of what is going on.

            how did we get so stupid?

          • Karl Venter

            Hi Bob
            Thanks for the hard work looking forward to the O day — hope I understand or get it
            One question – how controllable do you think it will be? on / off ( binary) or 10% to 90% output controllable?
            Keep up the good work thanks

          • Axil Axil

            First, material must be found that will contain the LENR active agent. Next, the amount of LENR active agent that the reactor contains must be determined that does not produce a meltdown of the reactor.

            Next, the appropriate stimulus of the LENR active Agent must be used to stimulate the LENR active agent into a vigorous active state.

            The format of the energy that is output by the reactor must be determined and selected in the design. This output energy format includes light, mesons, electrons, and/or heat.

            I prefer muons that produce fission in a molten thorium floride or liquid lead reactor.

          • Karl Venter

            Hi Axil
            Just a suggestion
            If you externally cool a material – say for example 13cr steel they can withstand very high temperature on the one side and withdraw the heat via water or steam on the other side eg boiler fire ball typically 1100 to 1600 deg c but when cooling stops they melt
            I was hoping that Bob had the stimulus for vigorous active state ?
            As far as muons go Axil Ihave no physics background and presume they are part of the energy emission from the reactor.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Balance is the key.

            There is nucleation / germination / gestation / harvest and retain for next generation.

            Field alignment and anything to cause strain will help nucleation.

            Old fuel will breed new fuel.

            Can be fed in a variety of ways.

            It can be broken

          • Axil Axil

            LENR is like corrosion that cannot be prevented. Rossi’s 1 Mw plant was junk after a year of operation. The QX is recycled and is not refueled because it loses its structure over time. Cooling does not prevent this deterioration.

          • Bob Greenyer

            All these things will come.

            Nearly a year ago, I said that with this technology – you have to give and take, I have a slide in ‘O Day’ called ‘reap what you sow’ – you must do this otherwise the active agent will tear your reactor to shreds.

            The natural approach is to want to make things ‘bigger’ more COP – well, in this case, it is not linear.

            The ECCO reactor is a good design and I will explain why fully in ‘O Day’ and subsequent AMA. A lot can be learnt from it – however, you can use the Deuterated industrial diamond as ovaries to get things going instead.

  • Stephen

    Bob

    Do we know if the sliver in the LION, played an important role in the device?

    It seems to have been added deliberately for some function.

    I’m aware silver has a lot of interesting properties apart from conduction so I am curious if it was due to conduction, it’s ability to generate interesting nano particles or something to do with its characteristic X-rays or its cluster and nuclear isomer properties or something else?

    Does it also work with out silver?

    • Bob Greenyer

      As said in ‘Mining Diamonds with LION’ – it was added with the intention of helping to detect radiation by interaction and subsequent emission. No other reason.

      To my mind, it will help capture the active component as it is the most conductive element.

      • Stephen

        Ahh yes I remember now that you mentioned that about it being to detect radiation.

        Already seems so far back. So much interesting data since

        • Bob Greenyer

          After ‘O Day’ it might seem like a lifetime ago!

  • Stephen

    When I walking to my car yesterday i saw a flock of starlings or crows or something. They were as always beautiful.

    The patterns they made reminded me of some of the shapes being described especially the jewel shape,

    I wonder if these small torus or threads group and “flock” like that with out merging but moving together as a group.

    As soon as I saw them it made me think of those shapes.

    I also was reminded of the “sprites” Bob saw with Suhas equipment in India.

  • Axil Axil

    When the time seems right, I suggest running the LION replication using a boron nitrite tube with the same dimensions as the quartz tube that is currently being used as a variation on the LION experiment.

    The boron nitrite tube may provide better containment of the LENR active agent and help prevent meltdown through material failure. This could mean the use of more diadisks to make for a more vigorous reaction and a prolonged period of self sustaining heat production.

    I also want to get this idea into open source to avoid patent restrictions.

    • georgehants

      Kudos again Axil, the number of deaths and suffering that can be avoided if this technology is successful and avoids patents is possibly immense.

  • causal observer

    Bob

    “How did we get so stupid?”

    Because we make incredibly poor use of collective intelligence. We attack and defend instead of collaborating. We hold back on offering ideas out of wanting ownership and fearing dismissal or criticism. We use secrets as sources of power.

    And you Bob are making incredibly poor use of collective intelligence. For several weeks now you could very easily have been stating your theories and assumptions about what is going on in information you share. That would allow people to make much better use of that information, and to make suggestions and offer theories of their own, knock down false leads, and to collaborate among themselves on all theories, with you providing supporting information, being the guide, the pathfinder, the coach. Instead you play this kind of strip tease, center stage, not even the conductor, just the star, the magician with the tricks, keeping the audience guessing, how much is real magic, and how much is just illusion.

    The psychodynamics of how you manipulate the audience and why you are doing it are interesting but besides the point.

    “How did we get so stupid?” You are demonstrating the answer.

    You can start changing that immediately.

  • Bob Greenyer

    No, it in not a discovery – that will be clear, people are going to feel a little weird.

    • stuart

      Is it a gift?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Oh yes, it is a gift.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Look closer, what do you see in these features an tracks?

    • Pink Panther

      In some places it looks like a trail of broken pieces of quartz are left behind.

      • Bob Greenyer

        No, think.

  • Bob Greenyer

    O Day is coming…

    Some of you will hate this… but it has several HUGE CLUES in it.

    “There are no coincidences in the end”

    https://youtu.be/WNR-AnDRr7c

    • Axil Axil

      Symbolism is appropriate in it own contest and great fun, but when it comes to a presentation of obscure scientific material, it is best to be as direct, simply spoken, and straightforward as possible.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Bob,

      And that video explains D+D (compressed in lattice) > 4He + 23.8 MeV (heat in lattice) how?

      Where do the protons, neutrons & energy come from that are needed to generate the observed transmutations?

      Why are the expected alpha, beta, gamma, proton, neutron, neutrion, positron, etc emissions not observed?

      Why are 3He, 4He and Tritium creation observed?

      Why is 4He creation highly coorelated with excess heat?

    • sam
    • Frost*

      As Simon Cowell would say “that’s a no from me”. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3151d792f7e0abcb40592c6ad211e368c122c784a49a25cc18f3aea8320ed733.jpg Vibrational energy??

      • Bob Greenyer

        hahaah

  • Bob Greenyer

    1 & 2 you can largely ignore, it is a visual effect applied to an image of the LION2 core to simulate it being stimulated cyclically.

    3. The Om section is representing the LENR effect, many aspects, one of which you have grasped, there are others – think – what is chanting meant to achieve? What more is this section telling you?

    4. VERY GOOD – it is only a representation of one fractal level of this, Where can we see this in the NOVA, Hutchison and LION visual data? What does it mean?

    There are several other things going on in an instant at the end – what are they? What do they mean?

    • artefact

      4.2: The dodecahedron (EVO) grows and is twisting (and it makes a pfffft sound! 🙂 )

      • Bob Greenyer

        The sound you can ignore.

        There is more…

        • artefact

          It comes to a standstill and then reflects the surrounding of the path the surface is directed at.

          • Bob Greenyer

            It’s environment – yes. What does it mean?

            There is more, what does it mean?

          • artefact

            1) It adjusts itself to the environment
            2) In the beginning it is a swirl without color coming out of a nothing/a zero point

          • Bob Greenyer

            1) Yes – How?
            2) Yes

          • artefact

            1) mixing the energy pattern of the environment and itself
            or doing the ying-yang.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Closer, research Yin Yang, the real meaning will reveal itself.

          • sgm0369

            Yin / Yang = black hole / white hole?

          • Bob Greenyer

            YES

            What is the relationship?

            How can that relationship physically happen?

            Why is it necessary?

          • artefact

            Why: to keep the equilibrium

          • Bob Greenyer

            There can be delayed equilibrium within equilibrium – it is a matter of time and space. In an enclosed system there is often net equilibrium.

    • Stephen

      I wonder if 3 represent vibrations in Attunement. Maybe EM and or acoustic with in the materials?

      I’m going Down the rabbit hole here but:

      I wonder if 4 has some projection alignment aspect that represents energy and matter?

      tetrahedron representing pure energy not yet defined as mater,

      cube representing energy expressed as 3 Leptons (electrons, muons and tau and their anti particles) EM fields and transitions of state associated with photons and neutrinos.

      Dodecahedron representingenergy expressed as sub nucleon particles associated with the 6 quarks (up, down, too, bottom, charm, strange and their anti particles) and their transitions of state associated with gluons and virtual meson exchange.

      And not just symbolically but what they may represent physically underneath in terms of projection and alignment underneath?

      • Bob Greenyer

        It is about projection / alignment at an impedance change – well done.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Really GOOD in some areas – not so much in others – but I know you will fare well on ‘O Day’.

    To help you on your journey –

    Think MORE about “Snowball down a mountain” – What does that signify?

    Think MORE about the rest of the lyrics – what are they describing?

    and here is some BIG CLUE, think…

    Chicago . Manhattan . Atomic structure .

  • Bob Greenyer

    Quite astute observation.

    More than that I have to prepare the data and the media to tell as short a narrative as possible with reference links for each and every aspect.

    This was mostly obvious to me last year bast on a growing sense of the cumulative experience spanning at least 130 years – Piantelli taught me to NOT ignore the past and NOT to fall into the trap of thinking that what anyone is observing is new.

    The data from ECCO was seminal in understanding the mechanism as was its strange radiation and the LION Track – but more than anything, Shoulders and Hutchison meeting in 2010 guided understanding. If either knew the answer they have never and still don’t (in the case of Hutchison) disclosed it, but Shoulders disclosed a lot in that interview which I urge people to read – and, over the last 6 months, John Hutchison has said things or sent images and links to things that he thought might be important or not – nearly every one was a gem.

    The final key really was seeing the ‘Two Spots’ which led me to the realisation, that led me to predict certain things and then it really snowballed from there, the mirrored arrows on the outside of the LION1 (and more, people have yet to spot), the SEMs from NOVA, the shape of strange radiation and finally – all the features on the Hutchison samples – subsequently verified by LION 1 and LION 2 photo analysis.

    There are signatures all over each and every one of these affected pieces and they tell you exactly what is going on – and what is going on, explains all phenomena I have heard of to date in LENR and Cold Nuclear Transmutation.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I explained elsewhere that the active structure can mask off areas even to the sub atomic level. I also explained that it prefers not to travel across impedance changes, preferring to stay in a zone – so if a fracture occurs, then it will find it difficult to bridge the gap – it is due to the nature of how it is working.

    Look again at the LION 2 ‘Jewel’ – really, how does that have EXACTLY the same gross shape as features on LION 1 and in Hutchison sample 21 AND be completely different in two separate ways (white layer and rose internals) than all of the material surrounding it??

    • Bruce__H

      For the quartz liner from LION 1, what was the original orientation of the coloured area? Did it form the floor of the cylindrical sleeve?

      If it did then why, in your scenario, do the colour changes tend to occur most prominently vertically below LION reactor core? Why not to the side or up above?

      My supposition is that the colour changes occur where some molten metal adheres to the quartz. This happens most prominently where the molten metal flows by gravity onto the floor of the liner but also to some extent where the metal has flowed to other places.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I have explained.

        The active components are nucleated in the Deuterated Industrial Diamond/Nickel disks.

        They GROW in a suitable conductor in various ways. Over a certain size they can attack ceramics – and they really love Silicon Oxides in all its forms.

        They will liquify the conductor based on its melting point (medium for Cu) and conductivity (High for Cu) – this allows them to contact a ceramic, effectively removing an impedance change. When in the ceramic they will migrate through it.

        The area around the most active zone is nearly a full loop of affected material.

    • Bruce__H

      For the quartz liner from LION 1, what was the original orientation of the coloured area? Did it form the floor of the cylindrical sleeve?

  • Bob Greenyer

    You are doing so well – I really want some other people to enjoy the journey rather than just the destination. In the meantime, you are really helping me understand what is important to get across. Thankyou.

  • Bob Greenyer

    You will know it is not.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Don’t know – I posted the other day that many of the COLOUR effects have been created using beta and alpha irradiation and heat treatment of quartz since first decade of the last century.

    We know that these systems produce HIGH energy beta bursts – we saw this in ‘Signal’ in 2015 (Rossi patent fuel in *GlowStick* 5.2) and likely in ‘Gamma’ at end of 2013 in Celani wire.

    It is likely there is Alphas, since there is signs of ‘loop punching’ helium bubbles in the LION 1 SEMs and we KNOW there is strange radiation.

    Moreover, we KNOW there is some form of high energy particles and likely extreme magnetic fields due to the ‘two spots’ signatures on the x-rays.

    • Bruce__H

      I look forward to Alan’s replication.

      He should take care though. Sounds like LION should also be thinking about how often he looked down the active channel of the MODEL T when it was generating excess heat because according to your account it should be producing various types of radiation and the least shielding is in the region of the channel.

      • Bob Greenyer

        FULLY AGREED

      • Bob Greenyer

        I will bring good pancake detector and have a WebCam on strange radiation watch.

    • Bruce__H

      Why wouldn’t radiation effects by symmetric around the core?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Perhaps you missed the VERY key part in MDWL – the whole discussion of the ‘two spots’ and what that led to.

    • Axil Axil

      Regarding the production of the ‘Signal’.

      The LENR active agent(LAA) is superconductive when it is fully formed. When all the individual LAA form a bose condensate, all the electrons that had covered the positive core are blown off by the meissner effect when a global state of superconductivity sets in.

      When the LENR reaction shuts down, electrons return to the positive core and more x-rays are produce by the electron movement into the failing superconductive core.

      This has been predicted to happen in “Hole Superconductivity”

      https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0375960101001013-10502f01.gif

      Consequences of charge imbalance in superconductors within the theory of hole superconductivity
      J.E.Hirsch

      Abstract
      The theory of hole superconductivity proposes that the fundamental asymmetry between electrons and holes in solids is responsible for superconductivity. Here we point out a remarkable consequence of this theory: a tendency for negative charge to be expelled from the bulk of the superconductor towards the surface. Experimentally observable consequences of this physics are discussed.

      https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0375960103011071-gr005.gif

      • Bob Greenyer

        Kinda

  • keenant

    1 & 2: Nice work on the cyclic visual effects (fooled me)
    3: The chanting frequency is the frequency underlying everything in the universe, perhaps this specific resonance of the om chant activates the LENR process, the diamonds used in LION are able to generate this frequency?, everything becomes connected together.
    4: The cauliflower LION image appears to show this platonic solid fractal explosion very well, I’m not sure what causes these explosions. Reading the transcript of Shoulders and Hutchison, it appears Shoulders had a way to stop ‘explosions’, and didn’t want to create EVO’s that were too big to control.

  • artefact
    • Bob Greenyer

      “There are no coincidences in the end”

    • Axil Axil

      This reference includes this item

      http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/14/7/075027

      What this says is that when light is mixed with electrons, the spin of the electrons is separated from its charge and a dark mode polariton condensate forms. This bose condensate is the soliton that is producing the LENR effect.

      • Bob Greenyer

        On the right track.

  • georgehants

    Afternoon Bob
    CU’s = Consciousness Units
    ———–
    Seth’s Comments
    CU’s are literally in every place and time at once.
    In you terms they can move forward or backward in time, but they also
    possess another kind of interior mobility within time as you know it.
    Time not only goes backward and forward, but inward and outward.
    These other directions of time give you a universe that seems to be fairly permanent, and yet is also being created.
    There is the constant surge of new energy through infinite minute sources.
    In certain respects the CU’s operate as minute but extremely potent black holes and white holes.
    The CU’s serve as source points or holes through which energy falls into your system, and in so doing, forms it.
    CU’s can appear in several places at once, without going through space.
    Of course they move faster than light, but that statement itself is
    meaningless in a way, since the units exist outside as well as inside
    the framework in which light itself has meaning.
    There are millions of them making up a single atom.
    All matter is based is based upon these units, as well as all psychological entities.
    In your lifetimes, all probable variations of any one event occur.
    The existence of probable realities and probable selves in no way denies the validity of your own experience or individuality.
    The precious privacy of your existence, and indeed of your universe, is
    all the more miraculous because its probable reality emerges from an
    infinite field of probabilities.

    • Frost*

      From the book of utter rubbish by Baloneouis the IV.

      Consciousness consists of expanding wave functions of quantum energy. “Quantum” means an ennobling of the ethereal.
      Life is a constant. Today, science tells us that the essence of nature is life.
      Lifeforms, look within and develop yourself.

      We are at a crossroads of self-actualization and yearning. Who are we? Where on the great myth will we be guided? Our conversations with other storytellers have led to an invocation of pseudo-mystical consciousness.

      The galaxy is calling to you via electromagnetic resonance. Can you hear it? It can be difficult to know where to begin. If you have never experienced this reintegration inherent in nature, it can be difficult to self-actualize.

      It is in unveiling that we are aligned. We must strengthen ourselves and inspire others. We must learn how to lead enlightened lives in the face of delusion.

      It is a sign of things to come.

      This circuit never ends. Soon there will be an ennobling of energy the likes of which the quantum matrix has never seen. The planet is approaching a tipping point.

      Humankind has nothing to lose. We are in the midst of a spatial maturing of faith that will become our stepping-stone to the dreamscape itself. Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the multiverse via electromagnetic resonance.

    • I do tend to believe that every single point of the universe has some sort of self awareness, consciousness is built in and eventually we do need models that explains all the forces as well as consciousness.

      We are all entangled particles, everything is connected and humans, we are part of the universe being aware of itself.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Yes, but it is a natural process. It doesn’t have to be feared par se – it DOES need to be RESPECTED

  • Bob Greenyer

    That would imply some sort of separation from the whole, from the continuum, what it is has will, intent and it runs through all.

  • Axil Axil

    LENR is recognized by human intelligence so that the universe can serve man’s will. But you do not yet understand what will be done with this knowledge when LENR is broken apart into its fundamental processes and studied in detail.

    For example, the production and application of negative mass has many applications that are not yet imagined. Then there is teleportation of matter, impenetrable shielding, travel between the stars, terraforming planets…

  • Bob Greenyer

    In your comment you have got most of it – some interesting corollary points to, however, the latter arguments have been possible due to humans not having this knowledge.

  • Axil Axil

    The fuel used by MP356 and ECCO produced transmutation of carbon when the fuel was placed on the carbon sample tape. Will the diadisks behave in the same way when they are placed on the carbon sample tape and tested for transmutation of carbon to metal?

    • Bob Greenyer

      I expect so.

      • Axil Axil

        That result would indicate that the LENR active agent is common across all three systems. Whatever is discovered about one is true for them all.

        • Bob Greenyer

          It is true across the board – I can only say with more certainty for those I have had actual hands-on experience though.

  • Bob Greenyer

    LION 3 – Replicates key signature effect, visible in x-ray

    The LION author has concluded another experiment in his series about which he notes that it ‘got nice and hot’. Even without seeing the reactor or ash, it is clear that the process was replicated since the x-ray supplied shows, without the LION author realising it, the ‘Jewel’ structure, seen across LION 1 and 2 and MFMP Hutchison sample 21 even with just an 8-bit scan of the X-Ray. A more detailed / higher bit dept scan may reveal much important vector and sub feature data.

    That is 3 for 3. That is to say there have been 2 back to back replications of LION 1.

    This is extraordinary evidence that it the technique works and is repeatable.

    https://youtu.be/7ZtFoOUH93I

    • artefact
      • artefact
      • Bob Greenyer

        Yes, that confirms my suspicion – After I made the video, I realised that was the real position and so I added my note about the alignment being off, but

        1. too late and I needed sleep
        2. I wanted to get it out there for consideration to see what others thought

        I will re-master with new position.

        It would appear that the one above is the same shape but ‘showing its back’

        this really is extraordinary correlation between different kinds of data.

        I am really looking forward to getting the X-Ray and scanning at higher resolutions an bit-depts, this is a VERY data rich document.

        • Frost*

          Will you be getting access to the SEM today? and also get hold of the images from last week?

          Looking forward to see what info they show.

          • Bob Greenyer

            No access today – but have got data – so much work – Aghghg

      • Bob Greenyer

        Compare this with the macro image of Huchison sample 10.

        Think Chirality

        • artefact
          • Bob Greenyer

            That is a good call, but I am actually referring to the closer image.

            I will mage a Gif – perhaps you will beat me to it as my office collegue has a recording going on in the office and I might not be able to get it done quickly.

            Reading from top left, your first small orange circle is the key way point

          • artefact

            You will be faster. Have only the video from youtube and I’m a little limited at the office.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Ok – let me see what I can do. I may need to take a different angle on the features.

            With the image and all I have said before, I think you will get it.

      • Stephen

        When I look at this image I see two “Jewel” shaped “Spiral” images and two lobe images almost like super imposed images and slightly rotated?

        Interestingly though I don’t think I see this effect elsewhere which makes it look like it is a feature of this item. Could it have moved?

    • keenant

      The most distinct feature is what I assume to be a white hole, it really stands out on the Xray in the ‘jewel’ corner.
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dd3e27292bc0209d712de99e48c27890ca075d41d6d2f272979c0bdcf18c3967.png

      Distinctive features from the ‘Anti-jewel’ are the higher density of holes in the centre. These EVO holes appear to only form within the ‘jewel’ boundaries/ring, and as this fractal spiral of ‘jewels’ gets smaller and smaller, naturally there will be a higher denisty of EVO holes. I have tried to annotate this on the ‘Anti-jewel’ image.
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/50a06ad811dbb87c83cb1acd35a8bb8bc3d8de3fa42fbfa684e576a908725f18.png

    • Stephen

      Bob is the feature in the top right of this image an artifact, another feature or a reference image that the rest is a detail from?

      • Bob Greenyer

        That is just a hole in the dental x-ray film.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Given that I understand how the process can make liquid and ‘eat’ material below its melting point, I am minded to agree with you… that is… if I didn’t understand it to be the same process in ECCO, NOVA etc.

    Getting it to produce excess heat is just about control.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Interesting thought train.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Good idea – I will look at that ASAP.

    We measured 1.3V from a test I proposed in India on Suhas Ralkars Steel rod processing (post processing) – I must find time to package that up – was already published as text in Infinite energy.

  • georgehants

    Morning Bob, I think just about everybody is fully behind you on page, some have spent much time trying to decipher the patterns where you clearly see something very important.
    Not affecting “O” day, do you not think it is time for a very big clue as to what you have found in them, so that we all can begin to have our minds in order on the day.
    artefact deserves a medal.
    Best

    • artefact

      🙂

    • Bob Greenyer

      It is going to be an all or nothing – and it will be all (abbreviated of course, since it is so massive and that will become clear)

      I have the data now from the SEM/EDS session last week. I aim to try my hardest to wrap up the slides and record over next few days. I have some animations to build so that concepts are easier for people outside this community (and even inside), I also have to do child care and want time with my family.

      So here is a very early slide… and it has a few BIG clues.

      O Day is coming… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f691c816902a654a42fef8398e045e888b898e9f82e198f1e3ab875edef1d9cc.jpg

      • georgehants

        Bob, you have made the suggestion and connection to consciousness in the past, that is where my mind heads as the base of all these diagrams etc. am I on or off course.

        • Bob Greenyer

          You are on course – that comes under the Much, Much more

          • Frost*

            What does ET stand for?

          • artefact

            It refers to the ET from the Hollywood film.

      • keenant

        Potential clues: implosion not explosion is interesting, where does the matter go? is it transported to a white hole? does it disappear? transform into energy?
        I like the large spiral in the background, and it appears to emit from 2 holes which requires further thought

      • artefact

        Do you plan to make a video that is going through the presentation? I liked the style with your hands visible best.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Yes.

      • sam
  • Stephen

    Hi Bob, do we know any more about the LION 3 test

    Were the X-rays generated passively with no external source with dental film in the same way as done for the previous version? Or are generated in another way with an external X-ray source.

    Are there any more details about this test run he can share? Duration? Any additional measurements etc.

    I wonder if LION is able to share any pictures of it when the test was running?

    Just some curious hopeful questions about that new development… I don’t want to add requests when he really has already shared so much. But everything we learn adds information and data.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Passively – in tea can as before. LION Author found that optimum distance for ‘focus’ was 12mm from tube

      He will fully report on other details after ‘O Day’

      • Stephen

        You know Bob if those X-Ray’s turn out to be broad spectrum synchrotron type emissions. Even just on that level the LION reactor is remarkable.

        There are table top synchotrons developed in recent years using lasers and phased emissions. Such as:

        https://www.nature.com/articles/nphys1789

        And some even use electron rings and micro sized objects to stimulate the emissions from bremstrahlung such as:

        http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/xrs.2402/abstract

        But the LION seems to be something altogether on another level even just in this regard.

        I have no idea if the X-Ray emmisions in LION are characteristic XRays, or synchrotron emissions directly from the plasma loops, are due to plasmon capture or are some how generated in a similar way to these table top devices but in a much more compact and self generated and self contained way.

        But I thought the possibilities here even in that simple way are interesting and worth mentioning. Perhaps it even has some baring on the over all process at least at certain fractal levels too.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I Agree.

          • Stephen

            Even more amazing when you consider the X-Rays are generated at least hours and maybe days after the reactor is switched off and removed from Alans robot.

            Amazing in how it works producing X-Rays then so long after external stimulation.

            But also amazing from the unconstrained portability potential, use in different environments and possible applications point of view.

          • Bob Greenyer

            It is the tip of the iceberg

          • Stephen

            Indeed and if that’s just the tip of it…

          • Engineer48

            Hi Stephen,

            You mean XRays, which are photons, or electrons/positrons from Beta decay?

            Heat after death is a well known LENR effect, which I believe drives SSM.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Good idea – after all, it’s electrons that are finally at work in the Roentgen film:

            “When light is incident on the silver halide grain surface, a photoelectron is generated when a halide loses its electron to the conduction band:

            X- + hv -> X + e-

            After the electron is released, it will combine with an interstitial Ag+ to create a silver metal atom Ag:

            e- + Ag+ -> Ag”

            From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_bromide#Photosensitivity (slightly modified)

          • Stephen

            Thats a possibility. It will be interesting when we can see the spectrum.

            If it’s 511 keV emissions or some other charcteristic x-ray emission from inner electron orbitals or low energy gamma from energy emission from the isomers in the nuclei. Or if it’s broader emission spectrum from Bremstrahlung or synchrotron source.

  • Bob Greenyer

    No – but they should be ashamed of themselves.

  • Bob Greenyer

    The feature seams to have been spawned from the very top, then some part of it broke away and travelled around the glass, then around 30º down (need to verify) it broke, splitting into two in opposite directions – one slightly up and round, the other down and round, both at a slight angle.

    • Bruce__H

      OK thanks!

      I am wondering what happened to the copper than has melted away from the core in LION 1. I had thought that the metal I see adhering to the inside of the “canopy” was this copper. Does this mean that the melted copper ended up adhering to the roof of the quartz liner?

    • Bruce__H

      Bob. Thank you for so patiently answering my questions but I am afraid that I still don’t have a firm image of where this “canopy” piece of the LION 1 quartz line originated. For some reason the answers you are supplying never quite provide me with the information I am looking for.

      Can we try again?

      Did the coloured piece that you call the “canopy” originally form the floor of the reaction chamber? Or was it the side or the top or something in between?

      • Bob Greenyer

        I will mark up the image.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Hi Bruce, I have laid this out by numbers for you, hopefully it is clear now. I have an advantage as I have been lucky enough to have been to Africa 3 times, so Acacias are part of my visual lexicon.

        I need to get lead up materials processed and the presentation finalised and recorded, and if I spend to much time spelling things out on a one to one basis, taking away limited time, it will delay what I really want to get out.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ea697f8c32effde30edb557d3b7e487cde8c602d52a75a9fdb291d68b6076a7a.jpg

        • Bruce__H

          Got it. Thanks.

          I now understand that the heavily coloured piece of quartz originally formed the floor of the quartz reaction chamber for LION 1. This is consistent with the metal I see adhering to its inside. The most probable explanation for the colouration is therefore that cooper melted off the LION 1 cores and traveled under gravity to the floor where it pooled. Metal adhering to the quartz is associated with colour changes in both LION 1 and LION 2.

          Now that I know that the colour changes were on the floor of the quartz liner for LION 1 it makes me wonder even more about radiation as an explanation for the colour changes. Why should radiation effects be affected by gravity? The most heavily affected region of the quartz liner in LION 2 was also the floor so I think this is now 2 strikes against radiation causing the observed colouration in the quartz. As I see it, the best candidate for this effect is the combination of high heat and adhering/invading molten metal.

          • Bob Greenyer

            In both LIONs effects are everywhere.

            In LION 2 the quartz is affected above and below the flood line and through the body of the quartz which is still smooth on the outside mostly on the top. There are specific areas that are extremely different, in LION 2 the jewel is the most striking example, with a white thin crust and the rose colour in the glass – whilst immediately adjacent areas around its entire perimeter were dark green / brown throughout without the thin white layer.

            The same structure is found at varying scales from extremely small to medium on LIONs and small to extremely large on Hutchison samples. The shape can present itself in a wide array of materials and look clear or opaque.

            There is far more than chemical going on.

          • Bruce__H

            I agree that the jewel is striking, but I don’t agree that it is extremely different from other parts of the sample. In particular, the quartz of the “jewel ” seems to me to be close in nature to the quartz at the other end of the sample as shown in one of your photos. Both regions border an area where metal is adhering to the liner. Where the metal actually adheres the quartz is dark and grey/brown, but just where the metal stops adhering the quartz is the orange/pink.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7bbde7680fc9b016ec88fe7e40ed98f861b10080feb7f5296fdcb766e6c6ad76.jpg

            This new orange/pink area I have pointed out does not have the distinctive shape you have been focussing on so I am thinking that the shape is just an incidental property of the “jewel”.

          • Bob Greenyer

            It does not have the white layer on the inside

  • Bob Greenyer

    “Like a tunnel that you follow, To a tunnel of it’s own. Down a hollow to a cavern.”

    Relevant.

    Research who worked on Chicago pile / Manhattan Project and their views on atomic structure.

  • Engineer48

    Bob,

    Are there any transmutations, pits, craters, etc on the used Lion 2 fuel discs?

    Have you done analysis of the blob from inside the Lion 2 fuel tube?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Prepared most of steemit today. Hope to finish it today or tomorrow.

      Need to have another SEM session to dive deeper into the used disks.

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