LENR Initiation in the E-Cat QX (GiveADogABone)

LENR Initiation in the E-Cat QX (GiveADogABone)

The following post has been submitted by GiveaDogaBone

Q: What is it I now believe we know that Sternglass[1:] did not know in 1951?

A: The anode DC current has to be fixed at the bias level that allows NDR(negative differential resistance) to operate. NDR operation requires the anode plasma fireball[2:] to be extent. Once the AC current, light and RF emissions are oscillating due to the pulsating fireball, progress will be made.

Sternglass’s neutrons (without Lithium6 neutron induced fission) seed the LENR reaction in Rossi’s QX. The neutron flux then has to rise to provide net 20W of Li6 fission. At that point basic fission reactor neutron flux control theory takes over; the most important things being negative coefficients of reactivity in respect of temperature and neutron flux density.

[1:] “Synthesis of Neutrons from Hydrogen: The Conclusive Proof of LENR” by Max Formitchev-Zamilof https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Max_Fomitchev-Zamilov/publication/288002944_Synthesis_of_Neutrons_from_Hydrogen_The_Conclusive_Proof_of_LENR/links/567d5bad08ae1e63f1e5fff2/Synthesis-of-Neutrons-from-Hydrogen-The-Conclusive-Proof-of-LENR.pdf

Sternglass discovered that he could synthesize neutrons via 20-35kV arcs in hydrogen-filled X-ray tubes

Ithaca, N.Y. August 26th, 1951 518 Dryden Rd.

Dear Professor Einstein,

You may be interested to learn that in the course of the past two months I have been able to obtain experimental evidence for the formation of neutrons from protons and electrons in a high-voltage hydrogen discharge.

The experiments were carried out with a demountable gas X-ray tube capable of dissipating 1,200 watts filled with hydrogen and surrounded by about 6 inches of paraffin on all sides. Voltages up to 35 kV and currents up to 40 mA were used and silver and indium foils were placed near the tube walls. The neutron induced beta-activities were measured with a thin-walled aluminum Geiger-Muller counter in a lead housing of about 3-4” thickness giving a background count of 15 counts per minute. The initial activities in indium and silver were found to be 6- 7 counts above background, decaying with the respective mean lives of 2.4 min for Ag and 54 min. for In. Having a standard neutron source, this arrangement could be calibrated roughly so that the rate of neutron formation can be determined to be on the order of 10-20 neutrons/sec at 38 mA and 25 kV and an estimated pressure of 10-2 mm of mercury in the discharge.

I remain sincerely yours,

Ernest J. Sternglass

Fig. 3. Sternglass’ X-ray tube used in the neutron synthesis experiment


  • roseland67

    Is this what Rossi is doing?

    • GiveADogABone

      Rossi has said that the QX makes 10% electricity, 40% heat and 50% light from Lithium Aluminium Hydride.

      See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_resistance
      Current controlled negative resistance (CCNR, open-circuit stable,[77][78][note 2] or “S” type): In this type, the dual of the VCNR, the voltage is a single valued function of the current, but the current is a multivalued function of the voltage.[77] In the most common type, with one negative resistance region, the graph is a curve shaped like the letter “S”. Devices with this type of negative resistance include the electric arc, and gas discharge tubes …

      See http://www.physics.ucla.edu/plasma-exp/research/Fireballs/index.html
      Figs 1(f) and 2(b)

      I reckon the QX is an gas discharge tube, biased as an NDR device. The NDR comes from the fireball 1(f). The oscillating electricity and light are shown in 2(b). The fireball also produces oscillating RF emissions. Outside the fireball the environment is ionized but relatively benign. The fireball is the LENR reactor IMO.

  • sam

    August 15, 2017 at 6:12 AM
    Dr Andrea Rossi,
    Your measurement system described in the Gullstrom-Rossi paper is perfect. The circuit is very simple, the plasma is a conductor, as everybody knows, therefore placing a resistance with a known ohmage and measuring the voltage across it, the current is obtained by the Ohm equation, as well as the wattage.

    Andrea Rossi
    August 15, 2017 at 7:47 AM
    Warm Regards,

    • Andreas Moraitis

      It is only correct if the plasma is continuous, and the QX contains no other components than mentioned. So please, Dr. Rossi, hook up an additional meter during the demonstration…

    • Mylan

      And again a post that praises this insufficient way of power measurement…
      It is quite obvious that Rossi is not planning to measure the power usage at the source, nor is he going to continuously measure the Qx resistance.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    See also: https://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0608229

    Interestingly, the great Rutherford thought that “neutrons” (which had not even been discovered in those days) could actually be ‘dense’ hydrogen atoms:


    This idea has later been abandoned for good reasons. But in the light of various LENR theories (or related concepts) of the last decades it might seem possible that both ‘genuine’ and ‘virtual’ neutrons exist.

    • Steve Savage

      Dense Hydrogen? …. Could these “neutrons” be Hydrinos … Seems to me the GUT of Mills may be the correct interpretation

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Certainly, Mills’ hydrinos are a possible candidate. I have no idea, though, if they could trigger common neutron detectors. One would have to ask Mills himself. And since he is very reluctant about the “N” theme, he would probably avoid talking about it.

  • Chapman

    My Friend, This is a critical find!

    Now THIS is worth a good discussion!!! But please forgive me, I will have to do some reading before wading in, or even being able to ask you intelligent questions.

    Really good work finding this and bringing it to the table! Thank You!!!

  • Dr. Mike

    This certainly is a possible explanation for the operation of the QX device that needs to be considered and examined. The bad news for Rossi is that with Sternglass’ 1951 publication of the effect he might have a hard time patenting the QX unless he has added something that is “novel and not obvious” to Sternglass’ idea of producing neutrons.

  • Anon2012_2014

    Fusors make 3*10^11 neutrons per second. Here Sternglass is talking about 10 to 20 neutrons per second, or a 10^10 difference. One has to ask could this be D-D reactions from the small 0.0156% natural abundance, or D-P or even P-P. Someone else who has the tables off the top of their fingers should be able to look this up. 10 to 20 neutrons per second after passing 1400 watts at 35 kV just doesn’t sound out of the ordinary but instead closer to normal boring physics — and the amount of hypothetical fusion energy might be 10^-12 of the amount of energy needed to excite the plasma in the tube. Not very useful and perhaps just demonstration of older fusion cross sections and Gammow peaks we already know about.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Your idea about DD seems feasible. NRL Plasma Formulary (page 45) gives DD fusion power density as 3.3e-13*nD^2*(sigmav) [watt/cm^3]. Now hydrogen gas density is about 3e20 1/m3, and deuteron density is 5000 times smaller, and a table on the same page gives (sigmav) at 20keV as 5.2e-18 cm3/s. This gives power density of 6 mW/m^3, corresponding to neutron formation rate of 1e9..1e10 1/m^3. This is larger by orders of magnitude than reported, although I don’t know the volume of the experiment. But most of the gas stays neutral, only some part is ionised and accelerated to 25keV, hence the above calculation gives an overestimate of the neutron count.

      Another possible mechanism is that the discharge may generate plasma waves which can accelerate some ions to higher energies than the acceleration voltage, similar to how cosmic ray particles are produced.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Another way to calculate:
      Assume ion beam cross-sectional area A=0.01 m^2.
      Assume ion beam length L=0.1 m.
      Deuteron density nD=6e16 1/m^3.
      DD cross section sigma=7e-31 m^2 at 25 keV.
      Mean free path lF=1/(nD*sigma)=2.4e13 m.
      Ion current I=38e-3 A.
      Flux of ions=I/e=2.4e17 1/s.
      Flux of deuterons=5000 times smaller=4.7e13 1/s.
      Fraction of deuterons to fuse=L/lF=4e-15.
      Fusion events per second=4e-15*4.7e13=0.2 1/s.

      Thus this calculation gives 2 orders of magnitude less than the observed one. But the assumptions for A and L were just wild guesses.

      In any case, either DD alone or DD combined with cosmic ray type particle acceleration seem fit for explaining the data; no need to claim LENR in this case.

  • GiveADogABone

    Q: What if the QX contains Lithium Aluminium Deuteride?
    2H + 2H → 3He + n +2.5MeV
    6Li+n→ 4He+ 3H+4.78MeV
    making a total of
    6Li + 2.2H → 3He + 4He+ 3H +7.28 MeV
    Looks like a fusion that ejects a neutron, followed by a fission caused by a neutron.

    1: Lithium Aluminium Deuteride is still a Lithium Aluminium Hydride !!
    2: Enhanced Deuterium in the Lithium Aluminium Hydride looks just like U235 enrichment in Uranium fuelled reactors.
    3: Thanks to Anon2012_2014 for inspiration. Fusors show that it can be done and they have common features with a plasma fireball.

  • Hi all—if I would get an interview with Carl-Oscar Gullström who helped Rossi with the recent theoretical work on the E-Cat, what would you want me to ask him?
    If you prefer not to post here you can email me at [email protected].

    • Rip Kirbyian

      1. Has he participated in the experiments in person or has he just written the articles sitting in Sweden?
      2. Why have the Uppsala team chosen to stonewalling everything regarding LENR and E-Cat?
      3. When does Carl-Oscars Gullström think that we have uneqivocal evidence of LENR? And how?
      4. What are the status of the Uppsala teams current involvement in own research regarding LENR? In conjunction with Rossi?
      5. What was most important to CG for believing in this technology? In Rossi?
      6. What is Fabio Fulvanis current role with regards to Uppsala university? Why was he hired?
      7. Are there any Swedish companies involved in LENR-research together with Uppsala?
      8. Are Elforsk still involved? Do they support Uppsala in any way?
      9. Has the Uppsala team received any attacks from other scholars? How? What reactions have they got from the principal/management of the university?
      10. Can CG comment on the descriptions of the mystic effects of E-cat x that Fulvani gave in the interview with you?
      11. Will CG base his PhD-thesis on LENR?

      • Buck

        12. Is CG so involved in the details of the E-Cat QX that a Non-Disclosure for the protection of Rossi’s IP required?
        13. If the answer to Q12 is “no”, are CG and Rossi open to a non-disclosure agreement?
        14. If the answer to Q12 is “yes”, will his PhD thesis advisor and review board honor the constraints placed upon CG?

    • Let me add that I think questions regarding physics and science are those that Gullström might be able to answer, if I get a chance to talk with him.

      • Rip Kirbyian

        Can you please expand on that. Why are not Gullström able to speak about THE most fundamental issues to this story?

        • Because Gullström is not at all connected with Rossi’s activities, nor with the replication attempts in Uppsala. As far as I know he has simply been curious about solving the theoretical physics puzzle regarding LENR and has got in contact with Rossi, but is pretty much working on his own, and has access to little, if any info beyond what is already public.

          • Rip Kirbyian

            Ok, thanks for your answer. That is really interesting. I checked upon his institution and saw than non of the Lugano professors in Uppsala are working in his institution. Are they not connected in any way?

          • No, they’re not connected, a part from Gullström talking occasionally to some of them – Uppsala is a small town and if you’re at the university in the same field, you inevitably get in contact somehow.

          • Buck


            thank you for the clarification on Gullstrom’s degree of involvement; it renders my questions moot.

    • GiveADogABone

      Is the fireball[1:] of a hydrogen-filled gas discharge tube, operating in the NDR(negative differential resistance)[2:] range of DC current, an RF(radio-frequency) source and a particle(mostly protons or electrons) accelerator[3:,4:]?

  • GiveADogABone


    I got a surprise when I saw this diagram: hot Lithium vapour, beam electrons, ion channel, plasma electrons being accelerated. Is this the accelerator that forms neutrons in the QX?
    Is the DL(double layer) of a plasma fireball a ‘wakefield’ accelerator that forms a circular track?

  • GiveADogABone

    This looks like the engine that drives the plasma fireball oscillations :-
    An Alfvén wave in a plasma is a low-frequency (compared to the ion cyclotron frequency) travelling oscillation of the ions and the magnetic field. The ion mass density provides the inertia and the magnetic field line tension provides the restoring force.

    The wave propagates in the direction of the magnetic field, although waves exist at oblique incidence and smoothly change into the magnetosonic wave when the propagation is perpendicular to the magnetic field.

    The motion of the ions and the perturbation of the magnetic field are in the same direction and transverse to the direction of propagation. The wave is dispersionless.

  • GiveADogABone

    Does the Quark-X work?
    I am heavily biased to yes on the basis of the analysis below.
    Is it Alfven waves wot dun it? Again yes.

    Chain of events :
    Bias current
    Anode fireball
    Magnetic field of bias current
    Alven waves in inner sheath
    Oscillating plasma density
    Oscillating current, light, and RF emitted

    Acceleration of electrons in plasma ‘wakefield’ accelerator
    p+e fusion produces neutrons
    6Li+n→ 4He+ 3H+4.78MeV
    D + T -> 4He + n + 17.58 MeV, # Possible secondary reaction D-T fusion if LIAlH is deuterium enriched?
    7Li + n -> 4He + T + n -2.47 MeV, # Possible secondary reaction?