Lava Flow LENR in Nature? (P. Oeoht)

The following comment was posted by P. Oeoht in the Edmund Storms video thread, and I thought it raised an interesting point. It was made in response to a comment by f sedei who was wondering what Ed Storms might consider LENR occuring in nature.

Consider volcanic lava flowing along a slope on the surface of the ground for day after day, at about 1 metre per minute, without a source of heat to keep it molten.

Now consider a ton of molten aluminium applied to an identical slope, also without a source of heat. How long would the Al remain molten? One minute, perhaps!

One of the standard volcanic temperature anomalies is seen when the temperature of the lava at the mouth of the volcano is found to be significantly LOWER than that up to 100 metres down the lava stream.

  • Ophelia Rump

    This is not an indication of LENR or a mystery, this is just a normal behavior of heat transfer through a medium.

    “One of the standard volcanic temperature anomalies is seen when the temperature of the lava at the mouth of the volcano is found to be significantly LOWER than that up to 100 metres down the lava stream.”

    My Daddy taught me many years ago that the hottest point on a soldering iron is the tip. The heat flows toward the tip, it builds up there.

    • Martin Lund

      I agree. Let’s not go make a mystery out of basic thermodynamics. It’s a failure of imagination of the poster to assert that there is no heat source… the source of the heat flow is the VOLCANO!

    • Freethinker

      Not to say that there might not be LENR taking places anyway, but in no way would it be any kind of significant source of heat.

    • Leonard Weinstein

      Sorry Ophelia, but you are wrong. Heat can only flow from hotter to less hot. It does not accumulate at the tip of a soldering iron and lava would not heat up as it moves through a tube. If lava is hotter away from the exit something is happening. This may be due to some change of phase of part of the stream, or an instrument issue, or a source of adding energy such as LENR, but not what you claim.

      • nietsnie

        Maybe Ophelia meant a soldering gun? In a gun, since electricity flows through the tip, and the tip is of much higher electrical resistance, it is hotter than the rest of the apparatus. That said, in that case, the heat doesn’t flow there – it is created there. So, her dad’s observation would be understandable even if his reasoning was faulty.

    • Jimr

      I’m not certain why however the same is true of cutting torches or propane torches, the heat is at the tip of the flame, you can hold a torch close to the metal and never get the metal very hot.

      • Leonard Weinstein

        The tip of a cutting torch flame is where the chemical oxidation is most complete. Before the tip, the gases are still combining and have not released all their chemical energy yet.That is the only reason the tip is hottest.

        • Jimr

          Would that be true also for a Propane torch, there are no gases to mix other than gases in the air?

  • Domenico Canino

    Rossi opened a new track; also the post of the USA military team on nanoaluminium reaction to produce hydrogen is on the same way;
    this is the proof;
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkFRsbWLF4

  • georgehants

    Why is Jupiter extra-hot over the Great Red Spot? Scientists puzzle over superstorm
    http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-jupiter-great-red-spot-hot-20160727-snap-story.html

  • georgehants

    Why is the sun’s corona the hottest layer when it is farther from the sun’s core than other layers are?
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-is-the-suns-corona-th/

  • jaman73

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1406.1419.pdf
    ……
    If the tresino hypothesis along with the nuclear chain reactions
    are the correct physical picture, then there are numerous
    implications for geophysics research. First of all, most
    of the heat emanating from the Earth is produced relatively
    close to the surface and is initiated mostly by entrained surface
    waters. Since the near-surface heating is not fully spherically
    symmetric, this could affect the deeper thermal currents
    which, in turn, might affect the Earth’s magnetic field.
    Asymmetric heating could also be responsible, in part, for
    some amount of tectonic plate propulsion as well.

    An interesting observation relating to volcanic eruptions is
    the occurance of lightning. Although there have been many
    suggestions regarding how the lighting builds-up the charge imbalance,
    for example [Houghton, et. al. (2013)], we suggest
    that residual charge left unbalanced in the tresino formation
    reactions that drive the eruption could also be involved
    producing lightning. Of course, experiments would need to
    examine this possibility.

    • Axil Axil
      • Chapman

        Awesome pic Axil! I have to save that one… Thanks!

    • Bruce Williams

      Hullo, this is the first time I remember seeing your responses to this site : your input is welcome & quite interesting:
      please come again.

  • Gerard McEk

    As far as I understand the document, NASA believes that these effects are caused by cristallization (which seems to generate heat) and ‘entrainment’. I assume that the latter generates heat due to friction in the lava stream following down the vulcano slope. Thanks for bringing this document to the discussion.

  • Chapman

    Why is it that when I go to Casa de Burrito and get a “Fuego De La Muerte” wet burrito platter it is served at 145 degrees, yet in my stomach appears to heat to several hundred degrees? And where does the extra heat come from to account for it achieving several thousand degrees as it “exits my system” some time later?

    Is this ALSO something scientists should puzzle over?
    Have I discovered ANOTHER natural LENR occurrence?
    You think I should write it up and submit a paper for Peer Review???

  • f sedei

    The below responders don’t seem enthusiastic about the possibility of LENR occurring in nature…when it applies to volcanoes. But, Ed Storms clearly states, although seemingly offhand, that LENR occurs in nature. I have a strong belief this may be true, and I would like Storms to present his evidence for all interested parties.

  • kayla

    I agree. Let’s not go make a mystery out of basic thermodynamics. It’s a failure of imagination of the poster to assert that there is no heat source… the source of the heat flow is the VOLCANO!

  • Zephir

    The heat of lava can be indeed powered with radioactive decay or even LENR (after all, the LENR research started when Jones started to analyze the mineral springs near volcanoes for content of tritium). But the above observation can be explained by low thermal conductivity of lava and basalts – and also with latent heat of crystallization of many minerals.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hDGYjfNGCA

  • georgehants

    SAO/NASA ADS Physics Abstract Service

  • georgehants

    Just interesting for those that have given simple solutions for this phenomenon, that if one Googles, “Harvard university volcano heat anomaly’s” then it becomes very clear from the many papers published that no solution has been found, many theories, but no solution.
    Just as with the anomaly’s on Jupiter and the Sun reported below.

    • f sedei

      Correct, Many scientific theories are interpreted as being absolute. LENR is a phenomenon that casts doubts upon some traditional findings and conclusions. It’s a whole new ballgame…so to speak. And, exciting but not readily accepted by many in the scientific and engineering fields.

  • P. Oeoht

    I ‘m pleased to read the comments to the lava speculation. In our environment there is little in the way free molecular or atomic hydrogen. It would be interesting to see if molten lava, not the volcanic gasses, contained hydrogen.

    I feel sure that an inquiring mind would have a lot of fun with a suitable ceramic container of molten lava.